Why Erislandy Lara Beat Canelo Alvarez (Landed Punches Count)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Oct 7, 2022.



  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    lordlosh likes this.
  2. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

    16,535
    18,011
    Dec 18, 2019
    CST80 and C.J. like this.
  3. aaalbert

    aaalbert Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,023
    1,999
    Jan 15, 2015
    Have to see the fight again but felt Lara was way to much on the bicycle and felt Canelo won when watching it live. Again, would need to watch it again but from what everyone is saying, seems I may have seen the fight wrong…
     
  4. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,339
    9,110
    Oct 29, 2012
    I always felt Lara gave it up the last few rounds. He had it but lost it.
     
    Ph33rknot, pacas and DaRealJT like this.
  5. Rollin

    Rollin Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,840
    4,241
    Nov 17, 2021
    Yep, Lara's career sidetracked partially because of the Alvarez robbery. Victim of the what I call an (in)effective aggression. That is scoring rounds based on roided bag of meat forcing the more cagey fighter back without scoring anything significant.
     
    pacas likes this.
  6. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,543
    7,417
    Aug 1, 2012
    Compuscorers are a funny bunch. Counting punches is not how prize fights are scored. When scoring rounds, you need to do more than count punches, you need to rate the effectiveness and the impact of Lara's punches vs Canelo's.
     
    IsaL, rinsj, Ph33rknot and 2 others like this.
  7. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

    68,374
    31,255
    Jan 22, 2015
    6-6 a draw. He ran too much down the stretch. Theres nothing wrong with scoring that fight for Canelo, as the body shots were really effective.
     
  8. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,339
    9,110
    Oct 29, 2012
    Dude, you've tried to use punchstats before....
     
  9. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,543
    7,417
    Aug 1, 2012
    I've referenced them at times, but I don't use them to score.
     
  10. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

    21,897
    5,781
    Jun 11, 2009
    canelo won if being off balance all night, punching air, glove and arm was a scoring criteria.
     
    iii likes this.
  11. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,339
    9,110
    Oct 29, 2012
    :lol: ok...
     
  12. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,543
    7,417
    Aug 1, 2012
    He landed some good shots on Lara, but he also missed at times. I think this experience though went a long way in Canelo developing his "seek and destroy" style. He never met a mover and a backtracking jabber quite like Lara. And that's not a diss on Lara, he's very slippery and hard to land clean on, especially back then in his prime. But if you can cut off the ring against Lara and land clean shots on him, even occasionally, then chances are you can cut off the ring and land clean shots on pretty much anyone. But in terms of scoring, he was very negative, so it's understandable that the judges would give close rounds to Canelo, even if he was landing less, if when he did land, they were more effective and eye catching.
     
    pacas and Wasteman like this.
  13. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    9,857
    8,187
    Oct 1, 2011
    You doncount punches i
    So what is the ratio to be used? 4 soft punches < 1 hard shot? 1 hard shot = to 8 jabs? So, could a fighter that was outlanding his opponent for 2:55 of a round lose that round because he got stunned by 1 big shot from his opponent in the last 5 seconds?
     
  14. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,543
    7,417
    Aug 1, 2012
    There's no set ratio, but yes 1 hard shot can be better than 4 soft punches or 8 weak jabs. It really depends on how big or fight changing the hard shot is. If the other fighter reacts to it, lets say he stumbles or grimaces in pain or something, then it can offset a good amount of ineffective jabs or soft punches.
    Yes, but for me it depends how close the round is. If a fighter is dominating a round then gets rocked at the end, that's probably not enough to cause him to lose the round. But if a fighter is only being slightly outworked but then lands a bomb, that could be enough. If one fighter is clearly winning a round, usually it will take more than 1 hard shot for his opponent to swing the round. 2 big shots in a round that a fighter is clearly losing outside of that, then it becomes more swing worthy. The reason being because it's a lot harder to land 2 big shots in a round than it is 1. Landing 1 big shot in a round could be more of a "surprise" out of nowhere shot, but to land a second big shot after that, that suggests that it was more than just a lucky punch or a fluke.
     
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  15. MetalLicker

    MetalLicker Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,894
    17,813
    Feb 10, 2011
    You can make a case that Lara won 7 rounds, but he did give up a lot of late rounds. I can also see a draw.

    Some of the scorecards were obviously ****. They always are in Canelo fights.

    If Lara fought a bit harder in the late rounds, he would have gotten at least a draw or a decision.
     
    pacas likes this.