How Do You Rate, Early Heavyweight Holyfield?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Oct 6, 2022.



  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    That's what it was, that took its toll on him.
    But the young heavyweight Holyfield had it all in spades.
     
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  2. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well looking at these fights : Stewart always failed when he moved up in class but a tough guy
    Evander was in a slobber knocker with what I thought was a faded Dokes
    Douglas? Buster phoned in that effort
    Foreman? He beat a 42 year old man by decision
    Holyfield was a very tough determined fighter but I can never rate him near the top ten all time
    Honestly if Foreman had been 24 years old do you think Evander would survive?
    or if Buster had been the same guy that Tyson fought I don't think the result would have been the same'
    How about a prime Dokes ? Much tougher fight
    The timing of these fights in those fighters career favored Evander.
    How would Evander do against Louis and Ali?
    Not well, his courage would mean he'd take a lot of punishment
     
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  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    He'd be wanting to go toe to toe with Joe Louis...
    That's not gonna end well.
     
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  4. Barrf

    Barrf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah he'd have to make sure he didn't do that. He did it when he fought Foreman, but old Foreman wasn't throwing laser guided combos like Louis was.
     
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  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Absolutely. Old George did stun him at least once, Louis would punish him for that.
     
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  6. Storm-Chaser

    Storm-Chaser Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ahh, the complicated story of PEDs and Evan Fields.

    But the only reason he became a heavyweight is steroids. He could have never moved up and remain competitive without taking PEDs. Holyfield is one of the top dopers in boxing history. While I admire his tenacity and grit, he was also a borderline dirty fighter. He would lead with his head, lean in and punch and headbutt at the same time, making it more difficult to for the ref to see what's going on.

    Tyson bit his ear off because of his headbutting shenanagans. He would try to headbutt Tyson with just about every lead possible. Opened up a gash about 1/2" deep above Tyson's eyebrow. I can see why Tyson got retribution, Holyfield deserved that.

    The PEDs and his dirty tactics are what made Evander Holyfield what he was. And that's not a champion in my book.
     
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  7. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I realize it complicates things, and there's certainly a case for PED's, but we don't know that some of his fights wouldn't have turned out differently without the use of PED's.
    You're right though, he was a dirty fighter, and Tyson was too, before the Holyfield fights. It personally doesn't bother me much, cuz I think if one's in the sport of boxing they should expect brutality and plan brutality, but I understand and sympathize if you dislike Holyfield for his dirty tactics.
     
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  8. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    tops.. right there with Ali and Louis
     
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  9. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I hate the idea of peds being such a shadow over Evander's career, and his fights will always have an asterisk next to them. What a warrior though! At his HW best, he is hell for anyone in history.
     
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  10. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dirty fighter, PEDS, but the heart of a lion.
     
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  11. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    More like the best foot work, after Ali. Not obvious, though.. inches. That old mother****er slipped right inside Lewis, when Lennox was KOing everybody. Holyfield was nearly always old once he went to heavyweight late (Usyk has a long way to go). But he was undersized and easily the best skilled. Nobody comes even close in his era, for what that's worth.

    His style was to box/fight. Like a heavyweight Sugar Ray Robinson
     
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  12. Jon1962

    Jon1962 Member Full Member

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    Tyson even in his prime was known as bit of a dirty fighter lots of opponents complained about elbows. Tyson was far from a saint in the ring.
     
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  13. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holyfield beats Tyson every time. The earlier, the more severe.
     
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  14. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Like I really give a $hit what you think. Don't waste my time numbnuts;)
     
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  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I overwhelmingly agree.
    Although I do not know if all of his headbutting was conscious cheating, fighters can be legitimately oblivious to their tactics when in a fugue/altered state, desperate for an advantage. Mariano was like that, got feral, but I do not think planned to cheat.

    HOWEVER a man must be held accountable for even what he does with denial-& warned a punished accordingly.
    With PEDs, it is unambiguous.
    He needed the extra muscle to be as competitive with the modern Big Boys.
    That must always erode his legacy.
     
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