Lol? The USSR won the boxing event overall and medaled in every division from featherweight to heavyweight in 1964, won the boxing event overall in 1968, in 1972 all of the top 5 nations (Cuba, USSR, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria) were socialist and didn't have pro boxers.
I asked this question in a thread in regard to the 4 kings documentary. I asked if there were EE fighters from that era that would have given Hagler, Duran, Leonard and Hearns problems. So, this is a subject of interest to me. Just curious if you thought any heavies from the EE could have caused trouble. I know the Cuban's had Tiefolo Sevens, but I never heard of a heavyweight from the EE during the 60's & 70's. Like to get some names and watch their videos.
I apologize for the rudeness, then. Honestly, I'm not too aware of the skill level of 60s/70s Soviet amateurs on the individual level, just that the USSR team had large amounts of success consistently for some decades across all of the higher weight divisions at the Olympics.
For power its hard to make an argument for either of them. Lets say they are roughly in the same division powerwise. But for chin we do have many examples of Ali getting dropped. None of Usyk. And Usyk fought bigger and more skilled men om average. For me thats clearly evidence enough. You might think otherwise.
OK you can make an argument that Usyk has a better chin. But that is dramatically different from your claim that Ali would have a poor chin today-which is patently absurd. Just admit it if you go way too far; don't shift the argument without acknowledging it! Now as for your new terms, Ali did not get dropped "many" times, several times. Also we should not count Wepner-he was stepping on Ali's foot when he hit him, otherwise Ali does not go down, & the same thing could have happened to Usyk. Also the size of Usyk's challengers were about the same as Ali's. I also do not accept that they were more skilled, but you can make an argument either way... But a chin is only in part about not getting dropped. It is also how much punishment a man takes & does not go down. When did Usyk absorb the beatings that Ali took, especially in his second career? This is in part due to Usyk's skill. Anyway both have excellent chins-in any era.
Russian and Ukranian boxing ideas have improved since then, Ukranians have very good training methods, hope the war doesn`t change all that.
Ali absorbed so much punishment because he defense was based around evading the right hand, this left him open to eating hooks.
Be very hard to match the likes of Hagler. Walker Smith Jr. Roberto Duran ane one of my Personal favorites is Thomas Hearns. I think he was so damn close being the greatest fighter ever. I'm not sure he makes to 10 all time, but I LOVE Hearns. I think Loma has the potential to hit all time top 5, if he beats Teo in a rematch, then the third time, and then has a couple more accomplishments. But I don't really have a Full list or anything. I think Aaron Pryor was also one of those guys that was super close to top 5 all time great, but needed a FEW little things. Mike Tyson lb for lb and age, if you froze him in time when he became champ, and every other fighter in history had to be as good as Tyson was at that age or bust, no one would ever be better. I think there was a point in Mike Tysons career where if you measure him against every other fighter ever at the same age, he is bar none the best.
Okey this is how a good chin turns into a poor chin: LHW Henry Cooper dropped prime Ali. He weighted what? 185 pounds? Average top HW of today weighs 240+ at least. Do you think Ali's poor defence like you yourself admitted would hold up against repeated power punches in the modern hw era? Usyk doesnt defend himself allowing to be punched arms dropped with his chin up in the air. That is because he would most probably be KOed. But Ali would get away with it? It would just be like all the punishment he took from a less powerful division back then in the 70's? Skillwise Usyk is levels above Ali. Footwork. Angles. Traps. Combination variations etc. Usyks punchbags are also more skilled than Alis back in the day. Otherwise Usyk would not need to learn and master new skills he could just box like guys in the 60s and still be king. You put yourself in a corner trying to argue for Ali. Like i said the only success i can see him get for his stature and style in the modern division is hit and run on a carefully padded record with cherry picked names that couldnt expose him. And even then I can barely see him even reaching top 30. Imagen a worse version of Hughie Fury. Thats it.
One way you can see that you have an extremely biased viewpoint is if you do threads about your questions. What is popular is not necessarily correct, but if what you believe is completely disdained by experts in the field in question-like many people here are-not even within the bounds of what is considered reasonable-then like say looking at what scientists in particular fields say about whether evolution possibly does not exist, or climate change could be not real or not man made... You will see like those ideas yours will be completely rejected. Another is that you sometimes make claims that are factually WRONG, not matters of opinion. Then you do not openly admit you are wrong & apologize. Here is another opportunity for you to be fair, reasonable & gain credibility: I did NOT admit or say Ali's defense was poor. Go back & note what I said specifically. It was unconventional but often very effective, relying in part of natural talents like reflexes & making a virtue of them by say keeping hands low, but that allowed other offensive possibilities + speed, like RJJ... You also cannot extrapolate from the fact that Ali was put down by one guy who was a modern CW (you can look up his actual weight), & because guys generally hit harder when heavier, say he ha a poor chin. That is a crazy argument. You should know that above a certain size it is at best diminishing returns for power. That some guys near 190 hit as hard as a modern SHW. Especially since sometimes those guys are not lean, or it is redundant muscle... That guys use a different style today does NOT prove that it is necessarily better. Especially when you have a unique fighter-few fight like Wilder or Fury, yet they have been top guys for years because they can pull off what others This content is protected . Ali has mucho great footwork, angles, combinations... Usyk is unique in recent times: in being so good without having much natural size OR hitting hard. Like Tyson had a unique combination of speed & power while being short & stubby arms for a modern HW. If nobody else does this in 10 or 30 years, will that mean things have advanced too far & Usyk is primitive & could not be a top HW in only a few years?!? Poppycock. That is illogical. Usyk like Ali has unique combination of skills that lets him do what others cannot. The fact that none of the Ali imitators were nearly as good just a few years after he retired-except Holmes-does NOT show that boxing suddenly took a quantum leap forward. It proves that it is very difficult for ANYONE to replicate the syle & success of the best guys.
Why not use the exact same logic when more people have voted for Ali by KO? Usyk has never even been down, while Ali was down and hurt badly vs 185lb Cooper
