If he never went to prison, would Rubin "Hurricane" Carter have become an ATG?

In hi final 12 months as a pro middleweight he went 3-4-1(2kos). He’d been a pro 5 years. Hardly the stuff of legends. But say he won the title from Nino he’d have to make the most of his 4 years as champion before running into Monzon to become an ATG. Sad what happened to him but realistically it’s doubtful. He’d have been a very tough contender.

 

I remember when he was temporarily released around '74 for a retrial and he appeared on Tom Snyder's Tomorrow show. In the interview he stated that there would be no reason for him to jack a bar and grill because he was making $100,000 a year as a fighter and about to fight Dick Tiger for the middleweight title. In my idealistic way I thought that made sense until I saw his record and saw that he went 7-7-1 after the Giardello fight. Losing to guys like Harry Scott and Johnny Morris is not getting you to the dotted line of a contract with Tiger. A man, BTW, who completely whitewashed him a year or two earlier in a 10 rounder. No, Carter was well on his way to Palookaville by this time. I will say I have no idea what he was making, however, on the stepping stone circuit. If he fought often enough he could have been making decent coin. 100K may be another bit of a stretch of his active imagination, however. I would love to know for certain what he was bringing down for some of his post-Giardello fights. He had a couple in South Africa, which was known for paying well. As for the rest...?

 

He was decidedly not great. He also lost the Giardello fight fair and square, despite what Hollywood would have you believe. He was in no way robbed of the title.

 

this is the problem with 'Boards' and opinion, accurate as they are SOMETIMES, equally they OFTEN aren't...

the point being, people automatically dismiss lesser known fighters as not very good or noted even,,, Wrong.

Many Top & Noted Fighters WERE Good & Very Good Fighters, so with that weighed against the TOP Noted Fighters, well Carter has some Very Good and Great wins...

So he lost to some lesser men, So What, many lesser men were equally good, especially on some of their better nights.

Carter MAY have become a World Champion, given the chance, he certainly proved he was Good Enough.

and as to Loses or Lesser Loses, well it is Boxing, and Champions, Contenders and Noted Fighters are ALL Pretty Capable - Generally Speaking.

 

If Carter never went to Prison, he'd be an obscure former contender
unknown to most boxing fans, like literally thousands of other former
contenders over the years.
Ironically it was the murder charge , and the movie and music that
came from that is the primary reason he is remembered.
He was a tough Jersey Middleweight contender. Their
were many.

 

Agreed. That movie was total bull**** all the way through. There is a reason why Bob Dylan hasn't played that song in years. Carter was no angel.

 

AGREE 100%...

and that is my point, MANY of these TOP & Noted Fighters, could equally win a Title, on their Best Night, or Given the Chance!

 

He was washed up already. It’s as big a myth he was derailed of a title shot than it is that he “beat” Giardello.

 

He appeared to be on the downside of his career when he got locked up

 

I heard about Carter for years in the 80's. The received wisdom was that he was virtually an uncrowned Champion. When I read an interview with that excellent Liverpool pro, Harry Scott, which mentioned his fights with Carter, I went back and did some proper reading. I doubt Rubin would have won the Title, let alone been an All Time Great.

 

No, is the short answer.

He was nothing more than a very good contender.

He topped out ranked at around #3, and was well and truly on the slide, when he went to prison.

Think of him as a middleweight Ernie Shavers.

 

He was in the top five for a few years. The one-round KO of Emile Griffith and a win over George Benton stand out on his record as high points.

Yeah he seemed to be sliding at the time but there’s no way to know if that was just a rough patch or if he could have put it together for another run. If you look at Joe Walcott’s record or many top fighters over time you might pick a point at which you think they were washed up … yet they turned it around. But odds are he had seen his best days.

I would say a bit earlier he was good enough that on his best night he might have been good enough to beat a champion of the day, but more likely he was just below top tier.

 

IF he never went to prison, we never would have heard about this songwriter Bob Zimmerman.

 

Ol' Bob had a decade and a half of classics before that album came out.