What about Deontay Wilder vs. Joe Frazier?

Punching down at your opponent is an advantage, but only if you're punching down to a particular degree, after that it's a disadvantage. Joe's dome was low enough to be a disadvantage. Joe's dome would also be in Deontay's chest so much, you'd think he was a twin Deontay had growing out of him.

Frazier via post-op after the separation procedure fails.

Or, in boxing lingo, Frazier TKO around 4-5 rds.

 

And you started by talking about hatred on the board, then spouted all that belittling language towards not only Frazier, but Foreman too?

 

I have to be honest, i don't really see that much skill in him Goo. His skill is that he eventually lands that booming right hand and he doesn't need much more.

 

Trivia : Which 6'3 to 6'7 220 to 250 pound top ranked Power Puncher did Frazier beat ? Hint . it aint Buster Mathis Sr............can you please find one ?

Foreman is known from the 70's purely from his Frazier/Norton blow outs, his ko loss to Ali , life and death battle with Lyle and the loss to Young.................nobody mentions the filler Foreman fought because it was filler and part of the reason Frazier underestimated him in the first fight.............Frazier did not loose that fight by finesse he got starched because of raw power. Fact.

Absolute fact : Frazier is 1-4 against Ali/Foreman.............he won ONE against a past forced exile rusty Ali who had lost a step.

 

He’s no sweet scientist. But he’s often made out to be a goon without a clue.

 

Correct.

The blinding jab/straight right vs Ortiz 2 was a thing of beauty and Ortiz aint no bum............a even older and borderline shot Ortiz lasted the distance with Fat Andy who could not keep him on the deck.

 

To be clear, I obviously know Wilder has a legitimately powerful punch that has cleanly hit chins and yielded KOs.

BUT, Wilder also lands a lot of punches behind the ear, back of the head, etc. - highly vulnerable and actually illegal areas.

He can be literally wild and reckless slinging his punches, devil may care where they land.

Question: if such punches were let go and/or ignored by the ref (read: expanded target area for Deontay), would Wilder’s chances of landing on bob/weave Frazier be increased or just the same?

I saw one Wilder fight (can’t remember against who) and the opponent was soaking up the chin shots very well - but then Wilder started catching him with several of the punches I’ve described as above (illegal shots) and finally the opponent fell rather quickly.

There is a good reason why those areas of the head are proclaimed off limits. Wilder hasn’t been the only one guilty of same but he does seem to land a lot more of them than the average bear.

 

So what? You are talking about some of the greatest fighters of all time, there's nothing wrong with losses past your peak when you're fighting ATGs, you realize this, right?

We are not talking about today's weekend fighters. We are talking about men like Ali and such. These men are some of the bedrock that HW history rests on! They are of the book of Great American Fighters, irreplaceable in HW history.

Ali-Foreman-Frazier ~ These 3 men were capable of defeating any HW champ that ever lived.

Now, who do you have lined up to defeat one of these men?

 

Wilder has not really fought anyone of top quality other than fury but yes he has a punchers chance against Frazier but no more than Gerry cooney would of had a punchers chance against Frazier

now that would would be a pickem fight wilder against the cooney from the holmes or Norton fight

 

Again, you’re ignoring the styles.

Wilder being taller than George is of no relevance.

Wilder being more athletic isn’t relevant either.

Wilder has no inside game.

He hardly uses any uppercuts.

It’s okay noting that he’s fast, but none of that matters unless he’d have had the opportunities that George had forced/found.

Frazier’s head would have been in Wilder’s chest. On the inside. Up close. Wilder’s power would have been completely redundant without any time and space.

You can’t list Wilder’s attributes whilst ignoring the styles.

It doesn’t matter what other fighters did against Frazier.

We’re only looking from Wilder’s perspective.

Frazier is a 5’10 pressure fighter, which would have given Wilder a very small target to hit, with limited time and space.

 

I'd pick Cooney prior to Holmes.

 

So let's get this straight. Two fighters that looked
like flailing school kids fighting
in middle school, one of them, a no talent (Helenius) walks
straight into a shot, with his chin in the air, gets clipped by
a shot from Wilder , gets himself ko'ed because of his
lack of skills. And now Wilder is seen on the level of
Frazier?
I'll give Wilder this credit, if he catches them clean
he could ko or seriously hurt any heavy in history.
Guess what, so could Jeff Sims.
If Sims were fighting in today's game he'd be Wilder.
If Wilder fought in Sims era, he'd be Sims.
If Eric Esch fought in today's game, he'd be a billionaire,
and a world champ.
A white rotund boxer with a great personality with a lot
of ko's over nobodies, or some bodies who were relevant
once a upon a time, but not at the time he fought them.
Not to much different from Wilder.
Yes the skill level, especially at heavyweight is that bad
in today's game.

 

Remember when Joe Frazier fought George Foreman on Jan 22 1973, it was post Fight Of The Century Frazier. In the meantime, Joe fought the likes of Terry Daniels and Ron Stander before fighting Foreman. Let's suppose Foreman fights Frazier in 1970 before the Fight Of The Century in March 1971. Frazier in 1970 had not suffered any physical damage as he did against Muhammad Ali.

 

Pugg you brought up some great points about Wilder's recklessness and add onto that Frazier would be all too happy to take illegal shots, and any other punishment Wilder would dish out.

 

1. I never said you stated that Wilder only needs a height advantage. I said you implied that Wilder only needs height AND power.

You literally said Foreman " needed a size advantage and a **** ton of power in the right and left hands." and that Wilder had these things.

2. "The man who did the job was 6'3", around 220 lbs which is a bit small next to 6'6" 245." That's what you said about Joshua's chances against Frazier. A quite clear implication that Joshua would be a great hurdle based on his size.

3. What in the world is your definition of submission?

4. Foreman literally came out and said his jab was a huge part of his game plan, that he knew Frazier wouldn't be prepared for how to deal with it, and that him and his corner studied Liston-Patterson, and copied Liston's tactics of using the jab to feint, then set their opponents up for the uppercut.

5. "Foreman used his size and strength advantage to push Frazier back in to mid range and hammered the **** out of him with lefts and rights. " This is correct. You've actually made my point for me here. Wilder NEVER did anything like this, and while I believe his durability is underrated, certainly didn't have Foreman's ability to shake off Frazier's hooks in order for this to be a viable gameplan.