For those of you who are unfamiliar, Papp was the first guy to win 3 Olympic Gold Medals, defeating eventual Light Heavyweight Champion Jose Torres for his third Olympic Gold. Went 27-0-2 (15 KOs) in his Pro career. He was in position to fight Joey Giardello for the World Middleweight Championship before the Hungarian Government pulled the plug on his career by denying him an exit visa. Papp was 38 years old, and had over 300 amateur fights, which makes me wonder what he had left at that point. One of the shortest Middleweights I can think of at 5'5"...James "Hardrock" Green being the only one that comes to mind who was shorter. Any opinions on how he might have done against Giardello? Was always curious about this guy...
I'm a big fan of Giardello, a man who had to wait till he was veteran to get a chance at a world title. He was a beautiful boxer as seen when out foxing Rubin Carter. Papp being a European is probably as underrated as Marcel Cerdan. So 2 cagey veterans in the twilight of their respective careers. I'm going to go with the southpaw on this occasion on points, no knock downs
Papp beat no one of note as a pro. Some of the relatively light competition he did beat he struggled with. The biggest names on his record were WAY past their primes and they had never reached the heights themselves. There is literally nothing in his record to suggest he would have beaten Giardello. Even the faded version who won a title. Even Papp's amateur record is deceptive considering he was a soviet fighter who stayed in the system for years fighting young boys who were actual amateurs.
With all due respect, but that's a bit contradictory and I'd argue - not accurate. He was not a "Soviet" fighter, Hungary was never part of Soviet Union, although Hungary was behind an Iron Courtain - so I see what You mean by that. Since all of Central/Eastern Europe were in that "block" and thus not allowed to turn pro for most of the time, all of the top talent from Soviet Block was competing in the amateurs long after They were "young boys", all throughout their primes. Perhaps You can say that American fighters He fought in Amateurs were young boys, which is probably true - but considering the level of success that fighters from Middle and Eastern Europe had in the pros, once things began to open up - I don't think You can just dismiss Papp's resume and legacy against all the top career-amateurs who never made it to the pros.
This has come up a few times on Classic. Just check out footage of his laboured win over moderate, brave George Aldridge and be grateful Laszlo was not put through the Tiger, Giardello etc mincing machines!
Yes, we know how he did in the pros, 27 wins 2 draws. Euro level and Americans, well past their best.
I think you are splitting hairs here. Hungary was a soviet puppet state. Their "amateur" program mirrored anything we saw in the Soviet Union proper so my point stands. When you have a guy in his late 20s and 30s who has been in the so-called amateur system fighting all over the world for over a decade while being groomed by state sponsored system then he has a huge advantage over kids who were training at their local gym, fought national competitions once a year, and only took part in a haphazard state sponsored team in the few weeks leading up to the Olympic games which is exactly how every western fighter he came up against saw their amateur career play out. Furthermore, comparing the professional game in the 2000s to how it was in the 1950s is completely apples and oranges. When former Soviet fighters turned pro after the fall of the iron curtain the sport was completely watered down at the top and from amateur to pro the number of gyms, fights, and fighters had depleted to the point where training and competition was not what it was in an era where most major cities in the USA had boxing almost every night of the week. Of course those guys had more success. The USA isnt turning out talent like it once did. Thats not a secret. Nevermind the fact that boxing in the modern era is scored much more like amateur boxing whereas boxing in the 1950s placed less emphasis on scoring pitty pat points and more emphasis on the fact this sport was supposed to be founded around an actual fight. I will ask again, who exactly did Papp beat as a pro to make anyone think he would have won a title? The three best fighters on Papp's resume were Cotton, Jones, and Sandy and all three were totally shot to pieces when he fought them. Watching him struggle with regional talents like Leahy, Aldridge, and Scott shouldnt give anyone hope that he was going to beat the likes of Griffith, Archer, Rodriguez, Tiger, Giardello, etc.
Papp best days were definitely left in the amateur ranks. That being said I really enjoy his two fisted attacking style. Very aggressive
On that point you're right, I figured it might be simplification - but I wanted to clear that out to maybe educate some younger people. I know that in U.S or U.K, the history of the region is not that well known. I'm not going to argue his pro resume, but I think He was almost certainly already past his prime when He turned pro, wouldn't You agree? He was over 30 years old - and those were different times like You already mentioned - with very long career and hundrets of fights in the amateurs. Not an ideal time to turn over. I honestly find it impressive He still adjusted to 15 rounds system even if it wasn't quite at the elite level of the pro game. If He had a chance to turn pro earlier, He would've had his prime years in early 50s, not late 50s and 60s. As for some countries having better amateur system, it's always been like that. Right now the GB team, Cubans, Kazakhs and Uzbekis have probably the best ones - giving their athlethes big advantage over the competitiors, but They also still have to compete with other fighters, maybe more narrow group, that They don't have those advantages over - so on that standard, everyone's amateur record is deceptive. You can also flip it and say that American fighters records's from before the 90s are deceptive since clearly the sport was not as global as it is right now and They didn't have to compete with Cubans and Middle/Eastern Europeans, which clearly makes the talent pool far less deep. All in all, I don't really argue your position - maybe He wasn't quite that good - I just argue the arguments that You used.
Giardello was a fantastic boxer and really papp's fight with tiger Jones (and pro career in general) really doesn't give me much confidence in him. + Him beating Torres is a new one on me.
I remember watching the Papp v Aldridge fight on TV. In the grand pantheon of British Middleweight champions Aldridge was let’s just say at the lower end. Papp struggled to get him out of there it was a gruelling fight and it took him to the 15th round to stop him. Aldridge had two more fights that year the last two of his career and he was knocked out in the 1st round in both by domestic opposition. I don’t think it would have augered well for Papp to fight the likes of Giardello at that time.
