How good was Max Baer at his best?

In which areas do you think Baer exhibited more talent than Marciano?

 

Speed, size and actual talent.
He did in boxing almost as good and didn't train/learn boxing.

 

He was the heavyweight champion when there was only one,,,,,,

 

Size isnt a talent and I don't think Baer was appreciably ,if at all, faster than Marciano.
He didn't learn boxing? He had 30 more fights than Marciano ,so why didn't he?

 

Bear has one of the best body types for boxing and yes he was faster than Marciano.

Because he was lazy.
You act like you don't know he killed a man.

 

Physique isnt talent.
I'm well aware of the fact Frankie Campbell died from the injuries Baer inflicted on him.The blows Baer landed on Schaaf late in their seond fight probably contributed to his death too.
Exactly what has that to do with his talent?

Max Baer vs. Frankie Campbell - BoxRec

 

That's called natural strenght and power just like Ernie Shavers.

 

Lol well Marciano wasn't skilled or talented either. You do realize his career was controlled by the mafia right? You do realize they hand picked his opponents, staged early fighters ect right? When he did step up and fight guys like Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles these guys were either over the hill or toward the end of their careers right? You do realize guys like Roland LaStarza and Ted Lowry both beat Marciano in their first fights and got robbed right?

Max Baer didn't have much skill and was lucky to have been fighting in the era he was but you can say the same thing about Marciano. From the 1960's to this day Marciano would of never won even a part of the heavyweight title. In fact the moment the cruiser division was started he would of probably there and still wouldn't have won any part of the title.

Limited skill Baer would of never won any part of the title since the 1960's either.

 

I saw you being an ass on some other thread about how someone knows nothing about boxing, Marciano boxed. He wasn't the greatest boxer, but he boxed Joebo. You sound green as hell writing like this. You must be writing these posts with speech-to-text because there is no way you have eyes to see your monitor or television if you think Moore or Walcott were over the hill.

Walcott was in his prime and already at the tail-end of an illustrious career, and you must be referencing some other Archie Moore because the Moore who fought Marciano went on to fight for another 7 years.

I would have to heavily disagree and think Marciano could confidently compete up til the 80's when fighters began to be much larger more often in the heavyweight division.

Thats a fantastic development, thank you for enlightening the forum with such a revelation. But could it be... that Marciano's record wasn't perfect yet he is the same fighter which we (not you since you cant see) view on film? So he robbed Lowry in their first encounter by mere points, could it be judges are fallible and that some of judging is subjective and the contest was close? Surely Rocky may have not earned UD, but it happened and Lowry concedes Marciano beat him fair in the second encounter? What does one hypothetical loss on points tell us about Rocky other than he could be out-pointed if he couldn't outwork his opponent, we already knew that.

 

He had some useful tools. Solid chin. Big power in both hands. Lots of guts. Ability to go 15 rounds. On the other hand, his Defense was poor. Didn’t much utilize the jab. Wasn’t too graceful on his feet. But overall he had what he needed to become heavyweight champion of the world and had a successful career.

 

Lol Foreman fought 38 to 48. You think he was still in his prime doing that time frame? Archie Moore was 40 when he faced Marciano and had over 150 fights. He wasn't in his prime anymore. Walcott was also pushing 40 but hey to fit your agenda that Marciano beat some top guys lets pretend a 40 year old guy with 20 loses in his career is still in his prime.

If you think Marciano could beat George Foreman, Ali, Frazier, Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, Gerry Cooney or any other 200 plus pound guy from the 1960's then I know you don't know boxing and I know you are being ignore. Go hero worship Marciano to somebody who cares.

 

Fighters may have multiple primes. Old Foreman was a beast and could hang with the best of an era. You're just some Boxrec warrior, put respect on Walcott's name, number losses are not indicative of a fighters quality. Contextualize wins and losses, you'd find Walcott and Moore weren't in their physical primes, but still had good fights in them as is evident if you would ever see the films.

I don't like Marciano. He's not in my top 10 or 20 or whatever, but I don't like ignorant people like you who disparage genuine fighters by oversimplifying their careers. You seem to know very little about the sport if you think things are simple as "big man beat little man".

More than styles make fights, and weight is nothing more than a number and is an obstacle which can be overcome, much like height, and other advantages.

If you want to view fighters in such simplistic and smooth-brained terms then by all means do so.

 

What does everyone else think of the way Max was portrayed in Cinderella Man? It was n't a bad film apart from that.

 

Which fights did the Mafia fix for Marciano?
The first Lastarza and Lowry fights were close and could have gone either way.

I never said Marciano had much skill,but Baer certainly didn't have more
Neither did I say Marciano would win the title from the 60's onwards.
Marciano was the poster boy for over achieving.
Baer was the poster boy for underachieving.

Its common knowledge Rockys best opponents were past prime,did you think it was a secret known only to you?

What are Baer's best wins? Schmeling and Carnera
I think Marciano's hold up well against those,and Rocky, whom I'm not a particular fan of, never lost to the likes of;
Jack McCarthy 2-3-0
Tiny Abbot 4-1-0
Nor did he make a gift of his title to a tired journeyman like Jim Braddock
Or quit cold in a fight as Baer did.
Neither was Marciano ever involved in a fiasco such as Baer's fight with Dutch Weimer
"A light slap to Weimer's ribs ended the bout, causing the crowd to roar its disgust. Someone threw an empty whiskey bottle at Baer. Leaving the ring, he turned to the crowd and shouted, "Well, you paid to get in - suckers." The bout, termed "a fake, fiasco and disgrace" by Premier Mitchell F. Hepburn (who had been in the crowd), resulted in the reorganization of the Ontario Athletic Commission and the appointment of P. J. Mulqueen as Chairman to restore confidence of fans."

Oh and Baer was mob connected, more so in fact than Marciano.

Right! lol

 

Max Baer was a big time underachiever who if he took boxing more seriously could have been a bit better. Up for two fights ( Carnera and Schmeling ) Baer was on the record that he wanted to prove a Jew could bet a German in fair fight. Given the times you could imagine why Baer was so motivated.

When I watch Baer on film a few things stand out. He had fight ending one punch power! The delivery of it in many cases wasn't good. He was big for his time and long armed. But he was also poor defensively, showed mixed motivation and courage ring the ring, and really didn't know how to jab or use his size to its full extent. Basically he lacked footwork. With the right trainer and motivation he could have been better.