Was Larry Holmes the "worst" heavyweight champion of all time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Storm-Chaser, Dec 1, 2022.


Was Larry the worst heavyweight champion of all time?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    5.9%
  2. No

    80 vote(s)
    94.1%
  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Worst thread of all time?

    Holmes was a prickly bad-ass. He also was disrespected coming along in Ali's shadow, being considered another dumb black athlete (which he was far from).... I love me some Larry. True, original hard man.
     
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  2. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well obviously the OP is allowed his opinion, but I think he’s regretting what he posted now.
     
  3. manilavanilla

    manilavanilla New Member Full Member

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    If we're talking morals then Larry is far from the worst. Tyson is a convicted ******, Berbick was also a sexual deviant. Ali was a black nationalist at a point in his life. Sure, pulling the Marty Jannetty drop kick stunt wasn't very flattering to Holmes image, nor was his outburst after losing to Spinks, but otherwise Larry was a credit to the sport who was continually disrespected. Gerry Cooney getting announced last in his heavyweight fight with Holmes comes to mind. I'd be on the prickly side too if I had to deal with BS like that, and that was far from the worst of it. Larry had excuses for Tyson, so what? Every boxer has excuses when they lose, it's often irritating but nothing more in my eyes.
     
  4. Sivaro

    Sivaro Member banned Full Member

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    There are several horrible people that were heavyweight champs. Berbick and Tyson come to mind.

    Holmes is in the top 3 on that list. That is the highest he will ever be ranked by me on any boxing list.
     
  5. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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    The reason Holmes is underrated is because he ruled the heavyweight division between 2 of the most charismatic heavyweight champions; Ali and Tyson. Had it not been so, the people would have seen Holmes as he was; as number 3, or number 4 HW ATG.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  6. PRW94

    PRW94 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I will plead guilty to not being a Larry Holmes fan when he was active. Just like I wasn't a fan of the Big Red Machine Cincinnati Reds. But not being a fan of an athlete, or a team, doesn't mean you cannot acknowledge their skills and their greatness. He absolutely was an ATG. He also was a prickly, crankly, no-BS, "working man" kind of fighter who came to do business, kick a##, collect his check and go home, and as such he IMO suffered in an era where so many boxers saw the sport as a medium for personal expression beyond what went on in the ring.
     
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  7. jarama

    jarama Active Member Full Member

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    If you are a professional fighter and have to have the mental toughness and be a basass, it could be quite difficult to be a hell of a nice guy too. I personally can't see how it is possible. OK Lennox is a nice guy but I have read qhen he was younger was quite a handful and violent, same goes for the big softie loveable Frank Bruno, who was a right headcase when he was younger, and knowing someone who met him about 15 years ago, can still be a a bit angry at times,

    So Holmes worst heavy is history imo
    NO not at all , in boxing terms one of the best I would pick him over Fury and Usyk
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  8. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    Holmes jumped off a car and landed a sweet dropkick on Trevor Berbick. This is why he cracks my top 5 and what made me love him immediately.
     
  9. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    In response to the thread, Marvin Hart called. He wants his title back, the Worst heavyweight champion.
     
  10. BoxingFanOfIranianDescent

    BoxingFanOfIranianDescent Tony Galento was an African American boxer. banned Full Member

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    Dude, that was one of the things that made Holmes cool
     
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Holmes didn't have the benefit of a lot of schooling and he most certainly didn't have media training. For sure he had a chip on his shoulder for years and was bitter and whiny numerous times in public and in interviews. He was somewhat paranoid and untrusting and he seldom gave any credit to anyone be it opponents, conquerors, trainers or even the general public. He was quite nasty toward opponent's leading into fights as seen by the ugly hotel confrontation with Witherspoon's entourage and blatant racist comments toward David Bey. There have been hundreds much more friendly/accessible and accommodating boxers over the years.

    However you can read many many stories from many many fans about Holmes behind closed doors away from the spotlight and i'm not sure i've ever read one that wasn't glowing. He dropped his guard and was from all accounts extremely friendly and accomodating and a fine man. So while Holmes public persona was mostly really shitty it didn't reflect who he really was away from all the glare and scrutiny. We've had numerous guys in here who met him and one guy that trained in his gym for years. They all came back with glowing reports.

    So you basically have two Holmes, the public persona Holmes and the, i guess, normal Larry Holmes.

    Holmes was made of stern stuff and like Hagler, usually built himself up into a bit of a state pre title defense as he believed, rightly, that the opponent was coming to try and take what was his. A lot of boxers need this, in want of a better word, hatred of the opponent to perform at their peak. For a Holmes it brings out the best in him. Everyone does it differently.

    Holmes drop kicking Berbick is a huge plus for me. How many boxers can let their guard down like that and go all primal? Berbick from most accounts was an absolute, dare i say it, drop kick. He wanted to barge into the kitchen but couldn't stand the heat.

    You don't hear anything about Holmes punching women, raping, killing or abusing the public or any such stuff. He had his moments as a youngster (didn't they all) but grew out of them quite quickly. He also helped the odd guy out and i believe he helped (in his second career comeback) Harold Smith get back on his feet post prison when he didn't have to.

    I'd say overall as a human being, judged against other boxers, he sits very well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    There is arguably nothing morally wrong in torturing/extending the beating of a boxer who is getting paid to fight you. Especially if that boxer deliberately attempted to get under your skin and insult you. It was the ref's job to stop that fight, not Ali's. Ali himself even addressed this in an interview saying people were criticizing him whether he boxed to a graceful decision or if he let his hands go hitting guys with bad intentions. At the end of the day, it's a sport where people pay to see blood and bruises. Terrel basically ****ed around and found out. Ali had plenty of built up tension from the government, the media, and even some of his own fellow African Americans talking down to him for his decision to practice a different religion, change his name, and refusal to support a senseless war so he took it out on a fighter who embodied all that negativity.

    Ali had plenty of flaws both as a boxer and as a man, but I never understood people getting squeamish about him beating Terrel mercilessly, a grown man and a pro boxing champion who egged Ali on and got paid for his troubles. I have punched people for free for far less.

    Somehow people are fine with admitting they were entertained seeing Mosley beat the crap out of Margarito or Oscar De La Hoya beating up Mayorga mercilessly. Sounds like a lot of picking and choosing selective outrage to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  13. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not outraged at all, just pointing out their has been worse incidents of bad behavior
    inside and outside of the ring than Holmes showed , which I did allude too. Terrell brought the whopping on himself
    by disrespecting Ali. No doubt about that.
     
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  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :lol:


    Sorry - but I couldn't resist that!!
     
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  15. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Larry Holmes is a good man and was a top notch champion. He was in a difficult spot following Muhammad Ali who was the greatest showmen in the history of the human race.
    Holmes made some mistakes with the media perhaps. Trying to rhyme like Ali didn't help him. At the end of the day Holmes showed true class the way he met Gerry Cooney in RingCenter and said "let's have a good fight".
    Things had gotten ugly around race in that one. Also when he had an over matched opponents like Ali or Marvis Frazier Larry always called for the referee as early as possible.
    Those are the type of things that matter to me that show what type of champion Lawrence was.
     
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