Does anyone still have Dempsey as a top ten heavy? Top 15?

Moore and Walcott had to have been better.

 

Mm, yes. If it weren't for ole Maxie and his fine establishment, well, I guess we never would know about the immense size of George Raft's dong. And, well, if that isn't the meaning of "p4p" then just what the heck is?

 

Better defences?Probably, but Valdes was the number 1 contender at the end of 53 and 54 and wins over;
Sys
Baker
Jackson
Charles
Doc Williams
Agramonte
Neuhaus
Put him there.

 

I’ll tell you what it’s not. “What it’s not”

 

Ok, but Wills=top 15 ATG. Valdes=maybe top 100

 

RING MAGAZINE SAID: "The Dempsey who fought Jess Willard was a "stone-cold" killer! He learned his craft and perfected his style over years of fighting! He wanted to end fights as quickly as possible! His power was NO MYTH! He changed the way guys fought!

 

Dempsey is a tough one. I get why contemporaries rated him so highly - he had a huge impact on the sport - it’s a bit like Tyson, hard to separate the impact from the in-ring achievements.

He was arguably one of the 5 most important fighters at any weight in history.

I think a top 10 spot at heavyweight is still reasonsable - it’s not like there are so many standout fighters clearly greater than him. He’s gone through a dive in popularity in the Internet age, that’s for sure.

 

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

True but nobody has the expertise and knowledge of eastside boxing handicappers and knowledge base. Just kidding

 

A fighter being overrated, often leads to an overcorrection.

this is probably a case in point.

 

He definitely has a case to be ranked in the top 15

 

Maybe more so than any other boxer in heavyweight history Dempsey was rated by his opponents as the best fighter they ever fought. Only two I know of did not think so ; at least 18 who shared the ring with Dempsey thought so including spar mates.

 

Dempsey's legacy suffers from a similar penalty Johnson's does which is, in the event of not dealing with their most deserving rivals, it throws a shadow on what they did achieve. On the flipside, had Dempsey dealt with Wills, then victories of over the likes of Fulton, Miske, Gibbons and Sharkey, would catch more light.

There's an extrapolating dynamic at work.

It's fair to say Dempsey has a bunch of strong performances against solid and varied opposition. It's also fair to use his failure (for whatever reason) to face Wills - maybe Greb - to have him lower down, or possibly out of the top ten.

As a fighting force I've always believed in him. The most versatile of the great sluggers.

 

But to Marciano's credit here yeah Valdes was number 1 in 53 and 54, but he did not have a non stop run. He did drop a few ranks and regain the top spot at the end of 54 after the Charles fights, then while Marciano was getting his nose tested vs Don, Moore went ahead and took Valeds title shot.

 

That's true.I dont mean to suggest Marciano was afraid of Valdes,I don't think,it would have ever occurred to him to be so with anyone,but I don't think Al Weill wanted that fight.

As for non stop runs Lastarza's immediate post Marciano record was;
A split dec win over gone back Layne
A U dec win over journeyman Rocky Jones
A u dec loss to 179lbs Rocky Jones 14-9-2 who floored him.

Did Lastarza deserve a title shot more than Valdes?
Valdes certainly beat more ranked contenders.