Does anyone still have Dempsey as a top ten heavy? Top 15?

LaStarza is a special case here, he got that title shot more of the SD defeat he had with Marciano when both were up and coming contenders. I do not think LaStarza would of got that title shot had there been no LaStarza Marciano 1 or the Rock drop him in 5 rounds or less. This was more showing the critics I am the better boxer and I won the first fight.

 

What you say is true but Dempsey does not impress on film vs Sharkey, Fripo and Brennan as he was out boxed before he fouled & took advantage of Sharkey, down a few times on an edited film vs Firpo and was in a tough fight later vs Brennan. But like you said he is a semi skilled slugger. A clean win over Wills over Greb would have proven a lot! Sill extrapolating....

I would list the Miske win due to his illness and the Willard win due to his age with an *

 

Yes he was the great slugger with chin and footwork

 

Suit yourself but it Jim jeffries in 1927 tagged Dempsey as As fierce and viscious
Fighter who ever lived and in circa 1950 picked Dempsey to probably
Beat a Joe Louis

 

Several people thought so too in the 1920's -1950's. Dempse over Louis and if examine their strengths and weaknesses I tend to agree. It would have been a heck of a fight!

Dempsey was not the tiger some make him out to be vs Sharkey, Fripo and Brennan is all that I am saying. We have film, though it susceptibly edited at key moments of the fight Fripo fight. Now these guys were contenders, it just that a good champion should not have had the trouble he did. Which brings us the the what if of Wills and Greb. For a great fighter Dempsey career has it share of smoke, doesn't it?

 

As far as Dempsey goes over 25 hall of fame boxers who saw him fight picked Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight who ever lived. Just as something of interest even Jim Corbett who faced the fists of John L Sullivan, Jim Jeffries, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tom Sharkey, Joe Choyinski declared Dempsey was the hardest hitter he ever saw

 

He has been ignorant and nasty to me for yrs now he's a condescending keyboard wanna be hard guy yet he never had the gloves on himself. This started when he called Holmes a coward and I said no one who steps into a ring is a coward period. I stand by that. No man who never stepped into a ring has the right to call anyone a coward. I called him out on it and he's been a condescending #### to me ever since. There you have it.

 

Dempsey signed to fight Wills 2-3 times as Dempsey actively pursued making the bout happen.

Floyd Fitzsimmons was to promote the fight but when the time came to pay Dempsey pre fight $ Fitzsimmons check bounced and Dempsey walked.

Fitzsimmons then sold the contract to the Chicago Athletic Club. Dempsey however felt the contract was null and void (letter was sent to Fitzsimmons stating this) since Fitzsimmons reneged on the aforementioned payment to him and he signed to fight Tunney in 1926.

In 1930 Dempsey was sued by Fitzsimmons/CAC for breach of contract and Dempsey won the case. The case was then remanded for retrial but Fitzsimmons/CAC did not pursue.

 

He didn't fight the other black fighters either.

 

The only top black contender from Dempseys title reign was Wills.

The deck was stacked for any black fighter to fight for the heavyweight championship as they were barred. Dempseys very strong attempt to make a fight occur between he and Wills is strong evidence of this. Dempsey would later say those that were publicly pushing for him to fight Wills would tell him in private that the bout would never come off. Further evidence is that aside from Johnson no black heavyweight fought for the heavyweight championship vs a white champion from the sport’s beginnings to 1937.

 

Regarding Dempsey vs Sharkey something was very fishy concerning the reporting of the ko. I’m retiring as of Jan 2nd and hope to find time to delve deeper.

Early reporting of the ko the referee is misquoted. The quote references a left hook to the solar plexus and a right that skidded off Sharkeys elbow and hit him to his leg. As you read more and more you realize this was an earlier sequence NOT the ko sequence which was very simply three right uppercuts to Sharkeys body followed by a left hook to the jaw.

Do why the misquote? Quite puzzling.

Interestingly I found a “interview “ of the referee of this bout where this was specifically addressed. The ref lamented that he was misquoted leading to the confusion. What he saw were three “viscous” right uppercuts to the pit of Sharkeys stomach none of which were low.

Dempsey would later say that in his experience when a fighter is really hit low they cannot stay erect. They fall immediately to the canvas.

The film of the fight was shown the next day at Yankee Stadium to all the newspaper men who attended the fight the day before. Accounts of that film showing range from “films of fight show body blows were legal” to “it did not change anyone’s mind”.

I am leaning that the refs statement concerning the ko was purposely distorted but need to gather more evidence to prove it.

 

Godfrey, Norfolk, Langford, McVea, Jeff Clark...
Yes, some wouldve made more sense pretitle.

 

Wills was by far any away the dominant black heavyweight fighter/contender of Dempseys time. If he was not getting a title shot, and Dempsey pursued that fight 1925/1926, no other black heavyweight was getting a shot.

Black heavyweights were barred from fighting for the heavyweight championship from the sports beginnings.

Dempsey was sued by Fitzsimmons/CAC in 1930 for breach of contract. Dempsey won the lawsuit.

 

Thats not the quote Houdini made is it.
Here is what he said,
The only top black contender from Dempseys title reign was Wills.

 

But that's not what Houdini said here is his quote.
The only top black contender from Dempseys title reign was Wills.
Now tell me which wins Godfrey had during Dempsey's reign that made him a top contender?And bear in mind Godfrey had his first pro fight,[his only fight that year,] in1919 the year Dempsey won the title.
Please also name the wins Langford had during Dempsey's reign that should have earned him a title shot?

McVey died in1921, I see nothing on his record from1919 till his death that would have made him a leading contender.
Jeff Clark was already 33 when Dempsey won the title again who is on his winning sheet during Dempsey;s title tenure that propels him to top contender status?
There is a case for Kid Norfolk but half his best wins during Dempsey's time as champwere over Dempsey sparring partners.Would a Dempsey v Norfolk title fight have drawn a crowd?