Once and for all, change the name. These guys do not descend from Joe Louis.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by choklab, Dec 7, 2022.


  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Anyone weighed above 220 is SHW then?
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Realistically 230. But as a compromise I would settle for name changes to save the creation of extra divisions.

    People can say relabelling existing weight classes would make no difference but I think it’s important that the top two divisions are in line with Amateur boxing so that the divisions make more sense to the general public.

    Heavyweight needs to become SHW. It would end the confusion of the word “cruiser” if it simply became “heavyweight” like it is in the Olympics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
  3. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    You don't think renaming the divisions - for no apparent reason - would cause confusion with the less than hardcore boxing fan?

    'Wait, I thought Tyson Fury was the HW champion, what you mean he isn't? Why? Who's this Makabu then, and when did he beat Fury?'

    'He didn't'

    'So how's he the HW champ if he didn't beat the previous champ?'

    'Fury's not the HW champ, he's the SHW champ, he beat Chisora for the HW title'

    'Eh?'

    Just to align with amateur boxing which even some hardcore boxing fans don't follow.

    Also what happens to the lineal HW title which ties previous eras to this one very nicely?

    Honestly, I don't get why the names of the divisions are so important to you. Doing this would not 'make more sense to the general public'. The opposite, in fact...
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
  4. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Except amateur boxing still did have a cruiserweight division maybe not in the Olympics but they had one.
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    If anyone is confused it's you. You've already changed just in this thread from anything above 200, to anything above 220 to anything above 230.

    No one cares about the amateur boxing nor are they confused by it.

    Heavyweight is most prestigious because it is the best division, the HW champ is expected to beat every single fighter in the whole sport. That's what makes it special, not your fetish with Rocky Marciano.

    You'd deny Foreman his HW championship redemption. One of the greatest victories in HW history would be gone according to you.

    The all time great HW rivalry between Bowe and Holyfield would be gone according to you.

    What you say is nonsense. These men do descended from John L Sullivan. Usyk has proven, beyond all doubt, that men who are considered "too small" can still beat the very best. Just like Jack Dempsey did all those years agao against Jess Willard.

    But beyond all that, the biggest issue you have is in your new system to line up with amateur boxing, Marciano wouldn't be classed as a HW, he'd be a CW which has a limit of 190 pounds lol.
     
    It's Ovah likes this.
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    why would it be gone? It already happened before the change. Previous history. The boundaries have changed on weight limits before and it never changed the history.

    it used to be when it had actual heavyweights in it.

    That’s just for the non understanding general public. Or used to be. There is more than one combat sport after all.

    wash your mouth out. They absolutely do NOT descend from John L Sullivan. What are you talking about??

    As you know full well, These SHW fighters descend from the first generation of the SHW division in Amateur boxing at its creation. Not before.

    As you know (full well) changes in science allowed bigger men to succeed at the top level in a way they had been previously historically unable to.

    no in the new system CW gets labelled HW so earlier champions would always remain heavyweight. Like they were in real life
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    it would cause confusion compared to everything else in boxing? It isn’t possible to cause more confusion.

    it’s as simple as “They call it SHW now”

    The TV commentators have been calling champions “this is a real Super heavyweight” all the time. Been going on for anlmost 30 years. Everyone already knows what one is.

    This is a good question that is simple to answer.

    Because there are a few broken links in the the linear chain there can be a few different options. As there ALWAYS is with lineal titles.

    The run of linear HW champions can simply transfer to Cruiserweight upon the first championship fight taking place between two men who were first SHW champions in the Amatuers. The super 6 tournament that took part in the CW division is another logical starting point.

    Because it’s just historically incorrect to link Sullivan to Tyson Fury. SHW is a real thing separate to HW.

    simple. They changed the name.

    answer “that’s boxing”. “They changed the name of Light welter to super lightweight”

    no harm done
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
  8. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    Yes it is: with a pointless name change for the HW and CW divisions...
     
    MarkusFlorez99 likes this.
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I admit it’s something of a compromise to prevent more divisions but I think it’s a decent solution to introducing the required SHW class.

    At least once there’s already a Heavyweight and SHW along side each other there’s less chance of further introductions.

    And no harm done.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    But CW exists in the amateurs? So your whole argument falls down.

    Not to mention that heavyweight has never been about weight limits. It's always been about the biggest men battling it out. Dempsey proved it vs Willard, Usyk proved it vs Joshua.
     
    Rumsfeld likes this.
  11. T_S_A_R

    T_S_A_R Member Full Member

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    I don't look in here much any more but this thread has ESB levels of idiocy.

    I'm impressed.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    They changed the name of Light welter to super lightweight. Nobody complained
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Lol
     
  14. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    This!


    I'm surprised he's still banging on about this nonsense.









    Actually, no, I'm not surprised.
     
    It's Ovah and lufcrazy like this.
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He will be banging on about this nonsense until he dies.
     
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