Punch Power Myth.

Fair enough, I thought you were postulating that c195lbs is the optimum weight to maximise punching power.

I agree that there comes a point when a fighter would be less successful at HW if they put on more weight and also agree the punches you don't see coming do the most damage, as they are the most likely to land flush.

 

After watching multiple Shavers clips, I completely agree with this. Part of what made Shavers power so effective was his excellent leverage and his ability to get all his weight into a single shot. The Holmes knockdown is sheer brutality and beautiful timing rolled into one. Shavers would sometimes throw so much force into his punches his rear foot would lift off the ground like he was bowling or throwing a baseball. Shavers infamously doing farm work such as lifting bales of hay, manual labor, and chopping wood with an ax no doubt strengthened his joints and wrists to be able to handle the force of his blows making his poor opponent receive most of the damage. You are 100% right.

One psychological factor is confidence. He knew he was a hard puncher and acted like it, and this is a factor many people overlook. Your attitude can affect your performance. I remember my coach just shaking his head as I was going back and forth with a light heavyweight and he pulls me aside when the bell rings saying "stop letting these little guys think they can go toe to toe with you. Have confidence. Jab like a big man and walk him down like you own the place and let him know his punches are nothing". The next round was like night and day in comparison.

 

I agree …and how do explain someone like Nikolai Valuev

 

I am 100% sure that adding muscle mass will not slow a fighter down. If anything it will make him faster and more powerful. Only if you're a bodybuilder then that is gonna impair your fighting ability but fighters can never gain that amount of unnatural muscle mass
edit: If you do it the right way hit the gym and lift heavy ass weights

 

Strength for what, clinches/shoving? Tyson always sucked at that. Getting him some proper instruction in those areas would be mroe fruitful than marginally increasing his strength.

For punching? Why? Like he didn't hit hard enough? Focus on speed, stamina, finding holes in Lewis's defense. Which probably means coming in light. The smaller 212lb speed demon 19 year old Tyson might well have been able to blitz a prime Lewis and KO him quickly.

 

It should also be taken into account who is on the receiving end of those punches.

Maybe Bob Foster could punch a bit harder at heavyweight than at 175 with his extra mass, but he was punching bigger guys and his best shots didn’t do the same damage to heavyweights that they did to light heavyweights.

Roberto Duran was a much more effective puncher at 135 than he was at 147 or higher. His diminishing number of KOs at higher weights reflects this, but I doubt a lot of lightweights could have taken the punishment that Iran Barkley did from Roberto.

 

Fighters put on weight for a number of reasons,age. lack of dedication, in an effort to maximise their financial potential by going up to a more fashionable division,to seek a match with a box office friendly star at a heavier division,to be able to absorb the power of bigger opponents,,to compete strength wise on a more equal basis with them.
I'm not sure there is conclusive evidence that going up in weight has significantly increased a boxers power?

Though I think it does enhance their resistance to shots.
Again I think a man of 215 /220, if he is so gifted can compete on a level plane ,power wise with any fighter regardless of size.Valuev and Carnera were not big punchers,nor could Carnera absorb big shots,whereas Valuev seemed to be able to do so,although Haye momentarily lit him up.
Punchers come in all shapes and sizes, skinny stringbeans ,such as,Robinson ,Hearns,Jenkins , and Foster, massively muscled monsters like Liston and Foreman , stocky fireplug, powerhouses like Marciano ,Langford ,and Beterbiev, and average lithe muscular, well put to together fighters such as Ketchel , Ko Chaney Dempsey,Arguello , Cuevas.and Louis.
My favourite current puncher is David Benavidez, tall and lanky with tremendously fast twitch muscles that generate power with either hand,he has an okay build but is far from ripped.
Assuming he gets past Plant no easy task, I think he will give Canelo a very hard nights work!
Bottom line there is no hard and fast rule and I don't think we are any nearer to discovering the who or the why of it than the great trainers of the 20's and 30's were,if we were I would expect to see many more power punchers around than there currently are.

 

How much do some of these guys need to weighs when a gervonta Davis's hits harder than a wilder ? Work on conditioning and flowing combos

 

Not only you are stronger with more muscles but weight lifting stiffens the tendons which we all should know by know is directly related to punching power. If the muscle mass is gained with steroids that will also make a fighter significantly stronger, which will help explosiveness, agility etc. I used to think steroids don't improve fighter's athletic ability but i guess that's wrong because it's been documented that steroids do increase muscle strength. I just don't see how it can do nothing but good for a fighter like some guys here are saying unless it's excessive muscle mass like bodybuilders have

 

As an amateur Hearns was a boxer,it took tutoring to realise and release his natural power.

 

I agree with some of your comments. I think, and know from experience, there is also a lot to be said for the delivery technique or system as some call it. Look at AJ, powerful athletic man but a terrible delivery system. He may well have faired better in his last couple of fights coming in slightly lighter, looking for that optimum weight to power ratio is a very difficult thing to reach.

 

Just want to say - this thread is a great read.

Civil, courteous, informative and open to other opinions. That’s why it’s progressing along so well.

 

As usual, pin point analysis and a consummate breakdown of discussion, for me, all this talk of " muscle " and " mass " " bulking up " plus weight lifting " falls on deaf ears, go tell Danny Lopez, I sign up to the " punchers are born " theory, so if he bulked up, put on a lot of muscle mass, Locche would be a fearsome puncher, methinks not , I have dumbed this down, but the central point stands.
stay safe guys.