Whos the greater fighter SRL or FMJ

I can tell you who beat more champions and hof fighters across more divisions.

 

Mayweather isn't beating Hagler at 158, LaLonde at 165, and Hearns at 160.

 

Firstly I will say that Maidana (first fight) and Castillo (first fight) were hardly totally outclassed by Mayweather, neither was De La Hoya really, a split decision if I remember correctly. But everyone, even superstars are untitled to a bad day at the office, see Leonard vs Howard for example.

Your post made me start reviewing both their records in detail and I think Mayweather perhaps has more overall depth but then I know a bit more about Mayweather's opponents than Leonard's, so I find it tricky to rate their non super star wins. For Mayweather I think Genaro Hernandez, Manfredy, Augustus, N'dou, Mitchell are all solid wins. I only really recognise Armando Muniz, Randy Shields, Adolfo Viruet and Mayweather Snr (strangely!) from Leonard's pre super star days.

On the other hand I can't escape from the fact that many of Mayweathers key wins were over fighters already coming off hard losses. De La Hoya and Pacquiao had both come off brutal KOs. Cotto (KO losses to Pacquiao and Margarito) and Judah (brutal KO to Tszyu plus loss to mediocre Baldomir). Gatti was also extremely shop worn by the time of their fight.

Ray's biggest wins were against unbeaten Tommy Hearns (with a huge superstar career ahead of him), Duran (only one loss before the first fight and considered top 3 at LW all time) and Hagler (last loss in 1976 before Leonard fight and considered top 3/5 at MW all time) and unbeaten boy wonder Benitez.

But we need to take into account that Leonard lost to Duran first time (though very close), drew (and disputed) with Hearns second time round and only won a very narrow (and disputed) win over Marvin.

I do rate Mayweather's wins over Corrales and Hatton highly, both unbeaten and Mayweather did a great job in both fights. I also think his win over Marquez was good as Marquez just seems like one of these guys that would be competitive forever, just a fighting machine, and he had a win over Pacquiao ahead of him. I haven't seen the Mosley fight but he was coming off good wins over Vargas, Margarito and Mayorga and was still a "live" opponent. His biggest win for me was Alvarez, which I rate very highly.

So I think it comes down to how highly you rate their opponents vs each other more than anything. De La Hoya and Pacquiao are certainly up there with Hearns and Hagler as ATGs, but do Mayweather's wins over shop worn De La Hoya and Pacquiao trump Leonard's super close win over a faded but still fearsome Hagler? Does Leonard's win over an unbeaten Hearns, albeit at the start of his awesome career, rate over Mayweather's win over Alvarez, how does Alvarez rate against Hearns?

I will be honest, a close review made it closer in my mind than I thought at first!

 

See my post above, I try and go more in more detail and I do feel Mayweather has more depth in some areas. I was just saying records can be deceptive if you just look at the number.

 

Mayweather isn't beating Hearns or Hagler in a dozen attempts. He could have his favorite ref Kenny Bayles interrupting the action every 5 seconds, weight drain them, call every body shot a low blow, force them to wear 20 oz gloves, have them fight in a 30 foot ring, etc, wouldn't matter. Hearns is a horrible matchup and Hagler is far too huge for him.

Duran and even Benitez are probably 50/50 fights for Mayweather and I could see either of them pulling off an upset at their best.

The only Mayweather opponents I could see potentially beating Leonard are Cotto and Pac and I'd still have Leonard the favorite against either one.

 

I think it’s revealing that in a poll of 80 individual responses on a site for serious boxing fans, 85% have gone with Leonard.

 

SRL didn't beat Hagler either, the refs handed him an undeserved decision.
And SRL was getting beat and out boxed by Hearns until Hearns got tired.

 

Cause they look at this with rose tinted glasses and cause they hate Mayweather.

 

Both boxers were outstanding amateurs Floyd Mayweather Jr won 3 Golden Gloves titles and an Olympic Bronze Medal ( although it has been argued there was some dubious judging) Sugar Ray Leonard won 2 Golden Gloves titles alongside other major US national titles and an Olympic Gold Medal when evaluating a boxer's overall career it's important to take their amateur record into account. Mayweather Jr is a great boxer and has exhibited great boxing skills but in my opinion since he has been matched up with non boxers etc which I can't say he has helped his overall career if he is The Best Ever (TBE) why isn't he still actively boxing today's best? I personally am picking Leonard over Mayweather overall based on his amateur achievements and that he didn't fight non boxers.

 

Adding Leonard to this list….He basically comes in last.


Update 3/14/22: ** and *** are used to denote Duran's admitted use of PEDs as referenced on post 125 of this thread.

*The ratings are approximated using annual ratings from The Ring prior to each fight and taking into account what the opponent did leading up to the fight but after the annual ratings were made (i.e. Hatton beat Collazo). Feel free to offer corrections.

Here are the numbers:
A. Top guy in the divison beaten (excluding themselves in rankings):
a. Duran: 5 (Buchannan 72, De Jesus 74, Lampkin 75, De Jesus 78, Leonard 80)
b. Mayweather: 8 (Genaro 98, Corrales 2001, Castillo I 2002, Castillo II 2002, Baldomir 2006, Cotto 2012, Alvarez 2013, Pacquiao 2015)
c. Pacquiao: 4 (Barrera I 2003, Barrera II 2007, Marquez II 2008, Hatton 2009)
d. Leonard: 5 (Hagler, Benitez, Duran, Kalule, Hearns)
B. Top 2-5 guys beaten (excluding themselves in rankings)
a. Duran: 5** ( Viruet 77, Viruet 78**, Moore 83, Barkley 89, Palomino)
b. Mayweather: 8 (Manfredy 98, Gatti 04, Mitchell 04, Judah 2006, Hatton 2007,Mosley 2010, Ortiz 2011, Guererro 2013)
c. Pacquiao: 11 (Sasakul 98, Ledwaba2001, Morales II 2006, Morales III 2006, Diaz 2008, Cotto 2009, Clottey 2010, Mosley 2011, Bradley II 2014, Bradley III 2016, Thurman 2018)
d. Leonard: 2 (Mayweather, Shields)
C. Top 6-10 guys beaten:
a. Duran: None, at a glance.
b Mayweather: 5 (Chavez 2001, Corley 2004, DLH 2007, Maidana I 2014, Maidana II 2014)
c. Pacquiao: 2 (Vargas 2016, Matthysse 2017)
d. Leonard: 5 (Shields, Muniz, Ranzany, Green, Finch, ?Chiavari?)
D: Top 5 guys moving up or down in weight immediately before fight:
a. Duran: 4 (Kobayashi 71, Brooks 78Castro 97 Bizarro)
b. Mayweather: 1 (Marquez 2009)
c. Pacquiao: 3 (Marquez 2011, DLH 2008, Algieri 2014)
d. Leonard: 1 (Lalonde)
E. Loses between age 18 and 38 (when Mayweather effectively retired)
a. Duran 8 (De Jesus 72, Leonard 80***, Benitez 82, Laing 82, Hagler 83, Hearns 84, Sims 86, Leonard 89)
b. Mayweather: 0
C. Pacquiao: 6 (Sangsurat 99, Morales 2005, Bradley 2012, Marquez 2012, Mayweather 2015, Horn 2017)
D. Leonard: 2 (Duran, Norris)

(Mayweather and Pacquaio dominate the first two categories, which are most important, whereas Duran came out in front for most losses and beating guys who moved up or down. Duran categorically has a worse resume.

Attempts to lionize Duran are generally based on treating his win over Leonard as the Holy Grail while ignoring that he quit in the rematch and managed 8 total loses, as shown above, in what should have been relevant points in his career. This,generally speaking, is done while downplaying that Mayweather moved up to his fifth weightclass to outclass anundefeated unified champ and heir apparent to the next generation at age 36 and followed it by outclassing the pfp best other than himself at age 38, two feats only accomplished by Floyd. Similarly, it is done while downplaying that Pacquiao's rise from jr. fly to welter is unheard of and likely will never be repeated.)

Late additions:
Hall of famers beaten:
Duran: 4 (Leonard, Buchanan, Palomino, Cuevas)
Mayweather: 7 (Marquez, Oscar, Cotto, Gatti, Mosley, and Pac+Canelo are locks)
Pacquiao: 7 (Marquez, Oscar, Morales, Bradley, Mosley, Cotto, Barerra)
Leonard: 4 ( Benitez, Duran, Hearns, Hagler)

Suffice to say, guys like Hatton may still get in.

Lineal championships won:
Duran: 1 (135, 147)
Mayweather: 5 (130, 135, 147 in 06 and 2010, 154)
Pacquiao: 5 (112, 126,130, 140, 147 in 2016)
Leonard: 4 (147x2, 154, 160)

Records against reigning lineal champions:
Duran: 2-2 (W Buchanan, Leonard; L Hagler, Hearns)
Mayweather: 3-0 (W Hernandez,Baldomir, Mosley)
Pacquiao: 3-1 ( W Sasakul, Barrera, Hatton; L Mayweather)
Leonard: 4-1 (W Benitez, Duran Ii, Kalule, Hagler, L Duran I)

 

Look at my last post, directly above.

 

Good post. I see no definite answer here. Leonard has greater top quality wins for sure, but Floyd has the numbers and longevity. So it's about what you think is more important of the two. Either one is a perfectly reasonable answer to me.

 

That’s like, your opinion, man.

Leonard would get stopped in one round against Corrales at 130.

 

Prime Leonard could make 130 with a day before weigh-in. Tough, but certainly doable. 135 also doable of course. If cutting about 15 lbs of water weight would kill a fighter, they'd drop like flies in today's scene.