Was prime "Iron" Mike Tyson the greatest heavyweight of all time?

I wasn't born during this era but I've heard Holyfield, was ranked top 3 ATG Heavyweight after beating Tyson which seems ridiculous to me.

Overall I do think Holyfield is a bit overrated at Heavyweight, no doubt a fantastic fighter and in many memorable fights. But the must win fights he lost alot of them at Heavyweight, outside of the Tyson win which was a very good win to be fair but still.[/QUOTE]

 

You are right in your opinions-although that in itself is an opinion-including stating soon after that Holyfield had too many bumps in the road to be a reasonable prospect for GOAT.
For me I also must maek him down for PEDs-however great he is considered, if he was not getting there without artifiscial muscle & strength, the cheating detracts from his accomplishments.
The heart & courage were all his; but not the physical vessel.

But please do not get upset & profane with W.B.
You know he sees things one simplistic way, automatically favoring wheat he feels is larger, stronger, more modern...
But he simply stated his opinion nicely, no need to be unsettled if he sees one guy better than another.

 

I never personally saw Holyfield rise to #3 anywhere due to beating Tyson. Perhaps he may have for 5 minutes given people were still 110% sold on the Tyson mystique.

 

Holyfield having too many bumps in the road during his peak is fact not opinion for mine. No-one is going to go on to be the GOAT when they have been bettered conclusively over three fights by another man with a loss to Moorer in between and that is with me readily accepting he was not right in the Moorer loss and whupped him to make things right.

 

You & I know that forgthe exalted status of GOAT Holyfield clearly had too many peak "bumps".
However the fact remains that this is an opinion.
Even saying say Peter McNeeley was the GOAT is indisputably an opinion: however outrageous.

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Let it be said right now that considering Berbick a better win than Thomas and even more so than Ribalta would be than factual for most with any idea of context. Those who lived the time will remember how it all went down and one can look up the records of all three fighters as well.

It's almost as bad as saying Foreman being considered a better win for Ali than Evangelista is an "opinion". These are really simple things.

 

"...would be than factual"? You meant to say it would seem factual to most?
I dunno if most folks would mistake an undeniable opinion for a fact, but I agree that most in the know would say Berbick was the better win.
The gap between Evangelista & Foreman seems much more dramatic, but of course that is also an opinion.
Albeit one I think most everyone who knows the players would agree upon...

However I confess that without researching it I would not know that the versions of Thomas was clearly worse than Berbick.
When he fought Tyson he had a better record (27-1-1, & mostly KOs).
Also it was not too long before that he beat Weaver, Witherspoon when 18-1, before that he beatCoetzee, Tillis & Ratliff had a combined record of 66-4-0...

Dang I am gonna convince myself that Pinky was as good!
Although your qualifying points of comparison stand as sound, including of course his single loss was to Berbick himself.

 

Saying George Foreman would defeat (boxing) a 100 pound man with no arms and one leg would be opinion too but at what point does stupidity and pedantry end and common sense take over is probably the question?

I didn't need to research it.

 

I’m a massive Tyson fan, I really am. The guy was one of my heroes back in the day along with The Hulk and The Six Million Dollar Man ( you guys under 40 ask your parents or talk to Mr/Ms Google about him.)

Anyway, Tyson was a force of nature, probably one of the most explosive HWs of all time, an incredible KO artist with genuine two handed power. He was the only man ever to KO the great Larry Holmes, and the only man to both beat and KO the ATG Michael Spinks. He unified the HW division, winning 10 (I think, I haven’t checked recently) Championship fights. He was an absolute powerhouse in his time and on his day, and he had plenty of days. So to answer the question, “In his Prime” he was pretty amazing!
If you’re sensing a but, you’re correct.

But…he was beaten by a guy who who had no right beating him.
Mike was still in his Prime years when he lost to Douglas…so whether he just had a bad day at the office or he didn’t train or he was missing Rooney’s guidance and expertise or whatever my fellow Tyson fans say, and I say this with a heavy heart and much regret…he was not the greatest ever in his Prime years. Between 86-92, yes he was the most explosive in my opinion. And especially considering his lack of height and reach, one of the best. But in my opinion, not the greatest.

 

Technically yes, we agree that all scenarios are opinions.
Undoubtedly though you would confess that although merely a difference of degree, the distinction between any successful, able bodied pro winning & someone unable to land any scoring blows would be-to put it mildly-Orders of Magnitude apart.

Now what would be the plausible means of victory for your unfortunately matched f(r)iend?
Can we presuppose any possibility of bionic or artificial limbs being permitted, say operated by his remaining mobility, or an implant registering thoughts?
It seems to violate the spirit if not letter of the rules-however we are discussing a world where said bout could be actually sanctioned!

Best thing we can say about the underdog is given the missing body parts, he would not be dramatically undersized in what remains...
But clearly a forfeit is by far the most likely path to victory.
Big George has a change of heart, & I guess it could be ruled a win, not a no contest?

The concept is so bizarre that maybe we could speculate that our Hero is so tall-perhaps just due to that one leg-that Foreman could not land a legal, scoring blow?
In trying he could have points stripped for low blows or illegal knockdowns-anything might tip him over, & even an accidental illegal KD could earn a severe sympathy penalty...

Also, a new way for Foreman to punch himself out!
Voila, a Paper Champion!

 

Anyone with a pair of eyes and minimum boxing knowledge knows he took a dive, only Ali fanboys can't accept it.

Tyson didn't have the motivation and discipline anymore, that's why he declined.
Rooney helped to keep him on track, focused.
If someone doesn't sustain a high level for a long period of time, it doesn't make them less good, it just makes them less great.
If someone comes along tommorrow and runs the 100 m in 9.5 seconds, he's the best ever. It doesn't matter if he just does it once in his entire life or if he doesn't win nothing at all, he can even drop dead after he runs it, he's the best ever.
Another person can run it in 9.6 seconds for 20 years, day in, day out, and he won't be better. He might be greater, but not better.

 

Yes, I don't think other fans have the same need of putting down other fighters.

 

That may be true, but peak vs peak, I see Tucker as a better boxer than Berbick.

 

That may be true, but you were just making such a meal out of injuries and Tucker fought with an injured hand, and of course worsened that injury doing the fight.

Personally, I don't think injuries play that a big part in many cases, since adrenalin often let's the fighter function any way, but you obviously do,

 

Holy clearly wasn't well for Moorer 1 and Bowe 3 so don't know if they should count for much, but Bowe did get the better of the two first fights on balance.