Muhammad Ali 1981 and beyond

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by CANNONBALL, Jan 23, 2023.



  1. CANNONBALL

    CANNONBALL Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So, i recently watched Ali v Berbick and Ali, though clearly damaged goods, performed a whole lot better than he did against Holmes. Obviously Berbick is not in the same class as Holmes but was a tough, durable type who was proven, to a point, at world level.

    I wonder how Ali would have fared had he taken on easier opponents at that time - for instance, a fight with John L. Gardner was mooted in 80/81 I believe. Ali was never gonna win a title again but could he have got himself a few more wins against softer opposition the likes of -
    Gardner - durable with a decent stamina but little power and slow feet

    Paul Sykes - really only british level

    Dino Dennis - at the time was on a 9 fight win streak after the loss to Cooney (tho all these wins were record padders)

    Eddie Mustafa Muhammad - talented but lazy LHW who tried competing at HW

    Neville Meade - won british title in '81 but around the same time was losing to 13-9 Leroy Boone

    Jimmy Abbott - big hitting south african off a ko1 of Kallie Knoetze. Pretty average

    Could Ali have got a few wins against these somewhat underwhelming opponents?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    There were probably some fringe type contenders whom he might have beaten at that time but honestly I’m glad he didn’t try. In fact I really wish Ali would have retired long before he actually did. And had he continued beyond Berbick there’s a real possibility that it might have shortened his life
     
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I have always contended that he should have continued for at least 5 more years, possibly till the emergence of Lewis.
     
  4. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    He should have retired with a record of 48 -2, after Manilla...never having been stopped and beaten every man he ever faced.

    Nothing he did after Frazier 3 added to his legacy.
     
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  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    His performance against Berbick was revelatory.

    He teaches Williams and Dokes and Tubbs and Hercules a few lessons on the way to getting another strap or two. Careful matchmaking on the back end of the 80's could have extended his career until Lewis' emergence. Maybe he makes a Holmes type comeback mid-90's for a few more paydays.
     
  6. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    No.

    Just plain No.

    Totally different case from Holmes.

    He had Parkinson's well before he fought Holmes, and the Pounding he took there didn't help matters.

    He had taken too many headshots that hadn't put him down.

    If he had continued for five more years, there's a good chance he could have died in the ring. At any rate, there were no meaningful fights that he could have won after Berbick.

    At a minimum, IMO five more years would have resulted in him dying five years younger than he actually did die.

    And retirement after the Thrilla might have left him a bit more coherent and a few extra years of life.
     
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  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Almost every boxer I have met with more than 30 pro fights has obvious cognitive decline. Doesn't effect their performance a bit. In fact, I would say it improves it but I have no scientific backing for this statement.

    I can actually plot matchmaking that gets him to 2000 with a nice bank account and a legacy unmatched.
     
  8. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Floyd and Sugar Ray still seem sharp but I would wager if you did a brain scan you would find damage, just not to the point it's clinically significant.
     
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  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Defensive wizards Pernell Whitaker and James Toney were both cognitively dinged up while their career was still on the burner.
     
  10. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    First of all, I'm reasonably certain that you're into the strong waters again, or trolling...or both.

    It surely does.

    Cognitive impairment is the reason you have DUI laws on the books as well as a host of similar laws and protocols.



    :qmeparto::qmeparto::qmeparto:


    What a shock !

    I wonder why that is ? :biggrin:





    He HAD a nice bank account and his legacy IS unmatched.

    The only way it might have been slightly improved id if he retired after Manila.
     
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  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Two truth bombs remain:

    1) The less fighters think (or can think) the better, more instinctive, they are. The worst thing possible is a thinking fighter.

    2) Ali left money, and legacy, on the table.
     
  12. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    The first of those is a 'lie' bomb.

    And as for the second, his legacy is unmatched in HW history.

    (He didn't need any more money either).
     
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Always preferred my fighters a bit dinged up. Brings out the dog in them. You have to erase the civilized man and get to the dog.

    Ali was on food stamps when he should have been fighting contenders!
     
  14. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    Ali fought all the contenders and ATGs he needed to during his career.
    He had no need to become a circus act in his later years.

    And after what should have been his final bout, his bitterest rival proclaimed:


    “Man, I hit him with punches that'd bring down the walls of a city,
    “Lawdy, lawdy he's a great champion.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
  15. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No he was dead meat, a sitting duck, the fighter that big hitting clubfighters would want to get at, so they could get his name on their record.
     
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