When Liston sparred Joe Bugner

I really dont think any of that has anything to do with the price of rice actually .. all injuries are not the same .. It's a brutal sport and people get injured as all sports, whether its a new injury , re aggravating a previous one, whatever. . We are talking about Liston here which his situation HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DURANS ... I dont think we have the right to say well hey you are not that badly injured so you need to continue ?? How do you know that? The point is he HAD an injury and that is not debatable IMO ... I will give you this ... given the situation ... maybe he could have continued ? who knows ? but he would be more at a disadvantage with an injury and possibly hurting himself even more ? is that fair ? But he didnt make that decision anyway !!! ..

Again it means nothing .. Hearns broke his hand against Hagler .. he kept throwing it ineffectively
Hearns folded his right against Sutherland early in the fight... he kept throwing it ineffectively
Both instances were ineffective .. used as a decoy if you will at best
Hearns latter said it was one of his toughest fights because he was INJURED

you are reaching ... if Liston's corner felt they could have beat Ali only with one glove... maybe they let it go on

Look .. this happens ALL the time in boxing .. injuries happen .. I gave you 2 great examples with Hearns .. actually with Benítez ,, there would be 3 .. anyway options are weighed ... and thats fair

surely you know pep couldn't continue with Saddler with his shoulder injury as i pointed out to you .. but your flippant response to me was ya Saddler made him quit too .. not even acknowledging Pep's shoulder injury as the reason .. only calling pep a quitter ...

 

They’re delusional and prefer to live in a echo chamber about how great the misunderstood soul and poet Sonny Liston was. He quit, he was getting clowned and he quit.

 

I didn’t say that. There was no fix and the injury likely had no baring on the result. Sonny had been trying to win. Had won rounds. It became a lost cause however because he was beat. Physically beat, without the injury. It mattered not that there was a claim of an injury. Sonny was outclassed and too tired out to continue. Just had not been that far in a fight for so many years. He was done. Sending him out empty for one round already. Not sure that is quitting. The guy was just beat. He had as they used to say “given best”.

 

Well i'm glad we got that straight. His trainers obviously agree with you one way or another as they pulled him out of the fight.

 

Too dangerous sending a man out empty like that.

 

What happened to Joe Bugner, last seen X number of pages ago? The first 48 hours are the most crucial - if he doesn’t get resurfaced soon, we may never see him again.

 

His corner pulled him out of the thread. No quit in Aussie Joe!

One of the last survivors from that early 70's heavyweight scene you'd think.

 

True dat.

When he does return, I want to see at least 8 different doctor’s certificates explaining his pull out and absence since.

Not too hard to obtain same in the Land of Oz without actually being sick (so I’ve heard, cough, cough) - the quacks are happy enough just to get their cut.

I was loving (err, I mean my mates were) the consultations by phone - just look up the symptoms you’re supposed to have and…voila!, a certificate would be there on the counter waiting for you to pick up!

Just looked up Aussie Joe - unless an old report, still with Marlene and living in Brissie.

JT - you should drop in and say G’day - maybe grab an exclusive IV for the forum.

Please reserve an important question for me - is Aussie Joe’s hair natural or does he use a curling wand? - it will impact on where I rate him.

 

Would you believe i just did a phone consultation to get a medical certificate for the two weeks i've had off with covid? Well past it now tho and was able to go and pick it up from the counter mere minutes later hahaha....bulk billed too by te looks!

If Joe hadn't already done a best i faced!!!!!!!!!!

 

I think that an illuminating thing concerning injuries is what SRL said when commentating the Tyson-Tucker fight. Tucker had a known hand injury going into the fight and when the other commentator brings it up during the fight, Leonard says that the adrenalin during a fight makes you not feel the pain.

There are of course times when an injury is a problem in a fight, but most times I think that pain killers before the fight and adrenalin during it is enough to make it not much of an issue. Probably a bigger issue in training for the fight.

For me it's clear that Liston quit in both fights. When taking them together that's fairly obvious, I think. I do think he had an injury and I do believe he was legitimately knocked down, but used both of them as excuses to quit.

Also it's a bit contradictory to laugh off the claim that the injury was made up as some tinfoil hat argument while at the same time say that the fight or the rematch was fixed, especially as the FBI looked into it but didn't find anything. If you can fix a fight for the richest prize in sports you can probably buy off doctors as well.

 

Even though Joe had naturally wavy hair, for his early career Bugner actually donned a hair piece system borrowed from the estate of Harpo Marx. It proved quite the successful asset during Joes first career as it held water retaining a cooling effect during fights. However, He traded this syrup with Scott Ledoux around the time of his first retirement. Unfortunately Ledoux would not sell him it back for bugners comeback run and Joe was reduced to less thrilling natural waves. Consequently He never forgave Ledoux.

 

I've been following this thread for a while and came across something interesting.

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source: "muhammad ali largest collection in the world" channel on youtube

This video shows the recorded part of the post-fight press conference, where the media asks questions about the injury.

At 15:11 someone from the audience asks Sonny if he knew about the injury before the fight. Sonny responds that he didn't. Interestingly enough right before this Jack Nilon says the same (man on the right). At 15:28 Liston is asked again if "he had a bad arm" before the start of the fight. Sonny answers: "Well... nah I didn't have a bad arm." Also, at 3:17 the promoter Bill MacDonald says that "by the time he (Liston) got to the hospital last night he wasn't able to raise his left arm at all". I'm not a native English speaker though, so there might be some inaccuracies in these quotes. There are many other interesting things discussed in the video that I haven't mentioned, so I recommend just watching the whole thing if you're interested.

I've always believed that Liston had an injury before the fight, but I honestly don't really know what to say about this one. If Liston truly had an injury before going to the fight, why would he and his team give these comments? This isn't 100% proof about Liston not having an injury pre-fight though, since many other credible sources contradict this and there is possibly something deeper going on. Liston is one of my favorite fighters, but I try to be as objective as possible and hear all angles on the topic. I would like to hear the opinions of all the Liston experts on this.

Credit for sending me this video goes to my brother @kaapa2 who knows way more about Liston than me.

 

We will never know. I said he hurt it punching at air. A poster whom I like, I try to like everybody, said he outlanded Ali. I checked the punch stats and Ali outlanded Liston, even if you include the round Ali was fighting blind. The thing is when Liston missed he missed badly. You can easily throw out your shoulder that way.

 

Yeah, in the video at 15:49 someone actually asks Sonny if the injury was caused by a punch that he connected with, or was it one he missed with. Sonny responds: "one that I missed with... I think"

 

Hair - it’s an important attribute in boxing that is all too often overlooked.

I like your serious treatment of the subject. So many others would scoff. I like and respect a good hair treatment.

If we also throw in Duane Bobick, we have boxing’s very own Hair Bear Bunch - the 70s was the Golden era at every level..it just kept giving.

At one point in his career, best ‘fro had to go to Jimmy Ellis. Johnny Boudreaux made a serious ‘fro for the title, but really, he was not Jimmy but he was Jimmy’s hair apparent.