Chin, recuperative powers and heart

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jel, Feb 4, 2023.


  1. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Saad Muhammad was exemplary in all three categories.

    He had a very good chin, but not impenetrable. He was knocked down face first by Ritchie Kates and hurt by Yaqui Lopez. But his recuperative powers and heart were off the charts
     
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  2. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    the rock had the dog in him.

    I would put forward Graziano too, not the greatest resume but the guy always showed up to throw down.
     
  3. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    I rate guys that come back from knockdowns much higher than iron chins.
     
  4. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    I can’t believe we got to page 3 until Saad was brought up! Yeah, he genuinely fits all three categories.
     
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  5. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I always think Tszyu got a pass with this.
    He seemed happy to quit but criticising him on here is like criticising Bambi!
     
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  6. Stewart Swift

    Stewart Swift New Member Full Member

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    I will get stick for this, but, Someone who had a good chin, but poor recovery and bad instincts under fire was Frank Bruno, never saw him down and out... never saw him face down and sparked out! Despite taking many unanswered shots.
     
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  7. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    It’s a very good example.
     
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  8. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

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    How so? If KT quit, then that is a platform for another discussion. However, it seems he didn't quit - his corner stopped it. I linked a clip in which Hatton himself made it clear that he understood that the corner stopped it - Ricky going so far as to say that KT himself wouldn't have quit. As to anyone getting a pass - you don't think Hatton got a pass on numerous foul tactics throughout the fight. Imo, he did.
     
  9. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well this proves my point in a way, this is like criticising Bambi.
    Do you think if Hatton had quit in the same way he wouldn’t have received pelters?
    As for Hatton’s tactics if I recall pre fight Hatton was going to be brutally knocked out, Mayweather and Manny managed to handle Hatton’s tactics pretty well.
    Anyway we’re derailing this thread.
     
  10. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Wilfredo Gomez - average chin, average recuperative abilities, great heart.

    Maybe that’s a bit of a harsh assessment but the point is that his will to continue was always there, he just didn’t always have that ability.

    The Yum fight he admitted that after the first round KD, he was in a fog for the next few rounds. His performance bears this out as he took some time to get his legs back. Once he did, he boxed really well and came back to win.

    The Sanchez fight he was dropped in round 1 as well and his legs were all over the place for some time. Again, he managed to fight his way back into it but never fully recovered and was memorably battered half-through the ropes by Sanchez.

    The Nelson fight he got properly poleaxed in the follow up knockdown.

    In none of those fights did he ever come close to quitting, he was just taking out by Sanchez and Nelson.

    It was his chin and ability to recover that came up short, not his will to continue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  11. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Exactly right, John.

    Tommy Hearns never showed a lack of desire to continue, he just didn’t have the same ability to recover as some fighters. It’s pretty rare that a fighter goes down hard and then gets back up and is seemingly the same as before he went down - that’s a rare ability and Tommy wasn’t deficient in that sense, he just wasn’t able to shake off the effects like some fighters. That durability was something that he didn’t have in the same way as a Larry Holmes or a Muhammad Ali.

    As he got more experienced, he learnt how to cope better with it (by actually holding) and, to his credit, he did manage to fight back on several occasions after being rocked or badly hurt against Roldan, Kinchen and Leonard in the rematch. However, the images of him getting knocked out by Hagler and Barkley are as indelible as the one of him flattening Duran (btw who I’d rate as ‘great’ chin, ‘good’ recuperative abilities, generally ‘good’ heart - minus one infamous example) and tend to overshadow those cases where he found a way to survive.

    But those cases where he survived were a great reflection of his heart and increased experience in the face of his natural limitations in that area. He was the hit man, but never the quit man!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Saad Heart works better.
     
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  13. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Rate the following fighters (or fighters of your own choosing) on the three criteria - chin, recuperative powers, heart - with a rating of ‘poor’, ‘average’, ‘good’, ‘great’ for each category.

    Roberto Duran
    Chin =
    Recuperative powers =
    Heart =

    Thomas Hearns
    Chin =
    Recuperative powers =
    Heart =

    Muhammad Ali
    Chin =
    Recuperative powers =
    Heart =

    Larry Holmes
    Chin =
    Recuperative powers =
    Heart =
     
  14. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Agreed, also you go a long way to beat Basilio on all 3 , he shipped an hellacious left hook from DeMarco and remained upright, withstood all Robo could dish out for 30 rounds, Gavilans bolo bounced , Fullmers overhand grenade failed to detonate, in fact not sure which of the 3 best exemplifies Carmen ?
    stay safe buddy.
     
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  15. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great topic.

    Juan Manuel Marquez is the definition of a fighter that gets dropped countless times but his tenacity always helps him recover and fight back stronger. Even crazier to think that despite getting dropped many times he still was never stopped in his career.

    Edwin Rosario should definitely be mentioned when it comes to good chin but bad recuperation. He doesn’t seem to get dropped many times but more often when he gets hurt he doesn’t seem to fully recover despite showing great heart and determination.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
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