Chavez vs Hagler P4P

But who did Floyd, Pac and Chavez lose to or struggle with at those weights? Hearns lost and looked vulnerable in a way at 160 they didn't at the weights you mention.

 

Yes, Hagler didn't even behave like his usual self. I think the moment was too big for him. He wanted Leonard all through his career, then when he finally got him, he fought too tentatively with no fire at all.

 

Well Mayweather didn't look great against Sosa, and arguably lost to Castillo.

Does it mean he was great at 130 and 140 and merely good at 135? I don't think so. Same goes for Hearns. And let's not forget how Taylor did when he moved up.

 

This is more of a stretch than elastic.

 

But Floyd clearly beat Castillo in the rematch, and Hearns quite inarguably lost to Barkley without ever beating him. He looked shaky against Roldan also.

And what Floyd did above 135 is some way beyond what Hearns did above 160. Floyd beat Gatti, Judah, Hatton, DLH, Cotto, Canelo, Pac and many more contenders and title holders, almost all of them easily, and didn't lose. Hearns had a very shaky win over Kinchen, a draw against Leonard (which many felt he won tbf) and a very good win against Hill to go with another loss against Barkley. Not bad, but not up there with Floyd's work over 135.

All in all, Floyd didn't lose one fight at 135 and above and only came close to losing once. Hearns had several losses and one (albeit controversial) draw at 160 and above and not as many notable wins.

 

Well, Gil Clancy, renowned trainer, who called the fight, and was at RINGSIDE, said that it was Hagler who was landing the harder shots

Moreover, it was hagler who caused Leonard to stagger in rounds 5 and 9 whereas Leonard could not return the favor

So who should I believe, you or a reputable trainer like Clancy?

You, or the count tracked on the video, and we know the video cannot lie

So, Hagler not only won the vast majority of rounds but also landed the more effective punches!

bt fear not, Leonard, who loses only to the best, still has undisputed wins over Kalule and Benitez

What the hell, let's throw in Duran 2. I got a kick out of watching it

 

Why don't you show us exactly on the films Leonard was staggered ? I'd say you've been making a fool out of yourself this whole thread but know you're a troll trying to get attention ... either way you're a bore.

 

oh god...

 

No, the moment wasn't too big for Hagler. If you've watched boxing long enough, you'll have realized that, when fighters are old & past their best they experience something called not being able to 'pull the trigger'. They see the openings, but they hesitate or appear 'indecisive', as you put it.

Hagler had come up the hard way and was far more worn than Leonard and Ray knew it. Hagler was snail-like by the time they fought.

Prime Hagler beats Leonard up pretty good, though Ray would be competitive.

 

Quite a bit being forgotten in the Hearns mentions. The struggles mentioned at 160 were 2 1/2 years post Hagler and even later. I think it's pretty obvious Hearns best form ended with the Hagler war and for that matter too so did Hagler's. It was a horrid three rounds and after that Hearns legs were never the same again and Manny actually spoke about that at length later on saying he could no longer keep big aggressive fighters at bay or avoid them as well as prior. He could still handle the less aggressive boxer types however. Hearns actually beat Sutherland 10 and 9-1 on two cards and had him visibly hurt in the 1st and 10th rounds. Sutherland commented that he had trouble getting inside on him. It was a good performance against a strong durable experienced guy over 2 years prior to the Hagler match.

 

Yes, it's very possible that the Hearns that faced Hagler was better than his MW record indicates.

I don't think he'd survived the Barkley right anyway, though. That was a hard, clean hit that Tommy didn't see coming.

 

True but he may have been a bit more mobile too which was talked about by Sutherland. He actually survived a truckload of good punches from Hagler in that short war, more than i would have imagined him being able to.

 

Yes Tommy took some hefty shots in there whilst the scrap lasted.

 

Absolutely Mac. Tho stopped in three rounds i think it's easily Hearns best display of durability. Tho i don't consider Hagler and out and out puncher he's hurt and stopped a lot of decent guys with not too many blows. He's definitely a "hard" hitter and puts decent juice on all his punches as well as carrying his power late.

 

Hearns also destroyed undefeated an highly rated James Shuler at Middleweight, stopped another tough Middleweight in Mark Medal, out pointed the very tough Doug DeWitt, destroyed Dennis Andries at Light Heavyweight, an underrated win for Hearns often not mentioned.

Juan Roldan was tough and gave a prime Marvin Hagler a good fight, also Kinchen cheated against Hearns by taking pain killer lidocaine. Something i wasn't aware of until @JohnThomas1 pointed this out to me last year.

Whilst i agree Mayweather did better overall, i do think Hearns is being slightly under sold here.