A description of the Greb-Dempsey spar

Greb vs Dempsey in a full length bout there would be only one winner and that would not be Mr Greb, as Louis said about Conn "He can run but he can't hide".

Mr Greb not having had a full fight with Dempsey was wise or good luck on his part.

 

This comment might hold weight if you could actually point to anything Ive said that has been twisted by a supposed bias. You cant though because I didnt.

Greb did make those same comments about other fighters and did indeed go on to fight them. He did sign to fight Tunney a sixth time. He was past his prime in 1925 and Tunney likely did weigh around the same in the fourth fight with Greb, which most papers gave to Greb, as he did in the fifth. The fighters did not weigh in for the fourth fight and no weights were reported for that fight beyond those papers that stated that Tunney looked to be about 20 pounds heavier. Dempsey was indeed well known for being very hard on sparring partners and opponents in friendly charity exhibition bouts. This isnt even debateable. Not only do we have hundreds of examples of this from the press at the time but we can see it on film and we have Dempsey's own words on the subject stating that he didnt believe in pulling his punches. Finally, we have numerous first hand accounts of the sparring session with Greb. Its not like those accounts are coming years later through the mists of time, they were reported the following day in every instance. So, you may not like the message, but dont shoot the messenger.

 

Part of the problem here is that Frank G. Menke disliked Greb and was typically critical of him. He was also typically in the minority of opinion in regards to Greb. Rather than accuse people of cherry picking sources by saying "it depends on which sources you use" and then just go and cherry pick a source that suits Dempsey. Why not take a comprehensive poll of all first hand sources that were there? Unless you think this would reflect poorly on Dempsey and you have an agenda to prevent that. Because thats exactly what a comprehensive look at all sources who were present that day does. It reflects poorly on Dempsey.

 

Was Tunney there watching ? Never read that he was in Michigan for the sparring ... they also sparred about three days and Dempsey was far more prepared the second and third day ... either way Greb was a tough nut to crack.

 

How much attention do you pay, again?

1. Did you consider that he's a published author who spent years researching and writing a book on the era?
2. That he traveled, researched and uncovered first-hand accounts of hundreds of fights from that era?

No offence intended, but your powers of observation are terrible.

 

The funny things about his comment is that despite the fact that people accuse me of being biased AGAINST Dempsey they always ignore the part when I tell them that I started out as Dempsey's biggest fan. My dads favorite fighter was Dempsey. He was who introduced me to Dempsey and he had met the man himself. My grandfather worshipped Dempsey. I read every book on Dempsey I could get my hands on, watched every film and documentary, and read every article. It wasnt until I started researching the Greb book and spent 8 to 16 hour a day every day for years immersed in the first hand sources from that era and got a solid feel for the context and what was going on on the ground at the time that I lost all respect for Dempsey and realized he was much more a creation of the media at the time and careful promoting and matchmaking than he was the rip snorting fearless indestructible beast everyone imagines him to be, and I was among those. The fact that I was objective, and didnt simply adhere to my own hero worship disproves the idea Im just biased against him and cherry pick sources to fit that narrative. I lost my respect for the guy specifically because I kept an open mind, and more than that, because I was bowed by the weight of the sources that support an alternative picture of the guy to the hero worshipping tripe that is spoon fed to people today.

 

All you did was respond to his boxing post, and he immediately made it personal.

 

I don't dislike anything you've written. I just don't read much into the varied reports on Greb/Dempsey spars, not in terms of what would have happened in a real 15R fight, that's all.

 

Well, we've already learned in this thread that according to Greg's powers of observation, Stephen's knowledge of the era is lacking.

 

Nice of you to remove the part of my post you quoted where I said he excels in his knowledge of the era.

 

Ironic you mention powers of observation when I've said exactly the opposite in this thread.

 

In these discussions involving Greb, I really haven't seen anyone add to what Klompton has put out there. In order to push back on his arguments you would have to devote a serious portion of your life to deep and focused research. I'm fine to admit that when I chime in it's just regurgitation from his book, which he certainly recalls better than me... so what's the point. He has cornered the market on this subject. If you feel this to be for the worse, you have a mighty big task in front of you to get similar credence.

 

"I was a pretty good fighter. But it was the writers who made me great." - Jack Dempsey