How well would mid-90s Holyfield have done in the 70s?

With or without PEDs?

 

I can't see middle nineties Evander beating the best seventies versions of the elite of the division - Ali,Frazier,Foreman,Norton etc and later on Holmes. He would have won against the likes of Lyle,Quarry,Shavers etc. Although Earnie's power would always have been a threat.

 

Ali and Holmes beat Holyfield.

Holyfield beats Norton

Frazier is all wrong for Evander. Mid 90s Evander and even the younger heavyweight Evander was mostly about out toughing guys. I don't think he keeps Frazier off of him and he doesn't out tough Smokin Joe.

The interesting one for me is George Foreman. Holyfield had one of the best heavyweight engines in history. 1970s George did not, to say the least. I'm going with Foreman because this version of Holyfield was a you hit me and I'll hit you kind of fighter. That is not a good plan when fighting George.

 

42 year old Holmes won 4 or possibly 5 rounds vs a prime Holyfield, a prime Holmes would decision Holyfield.

Holyfield had issues vs an old Holmes's crafty tactics, Ali was the best at that and i think a good version of Ali say against Norton 2 would decision Holyfield.

Frazier stops Holyfield in a slugfest Holyfield like to go to war too much, and that would be his undoing against Frazier.

I actually think Norton would decision Holyfield, Norton is one of the best conditioned 15 round fighters ever. And Holyfield doesn't quite hit hard enough as a Heavyweight to get Norton out of there. Overall it would be a tremendously exciting fight and very close either way.

Holyfied would get stopped by a prime Foreman, Holyfield liked to go to war too much in his pomp. He just about survived vs the likes of Cooper, Stewart, against Foreman he wouldn't survive.

I can see Earnie Shavers maybe rocking Holyfield badly early on, but i see Holyfield weathering the storm and stopping Shavers in the 2nd half of the fight.

Jimmy Young would frustrate the hell out of Holyfield, but i think Holyfield's combination punching and overall aggression would earn him a close decision.

Against all the other known Heavyweights of the 70s like Lyle, Ellis, Quarry, etc i would favour Holyfield to beat all of them.

I think overall if you could combine Holyfield with his energy levels and younger age of early 90s, and combine him with the more ring savvy Holyfield of the mid to late 90s. I think Holyfield would fare a bit better in some of these match ups.

 

I agree with you here, Stevie
Against the top layer, Ali, Frazier etc, he loses, the other below he stands a great chance.

 

The argument against the old guys is often they would be to small. At 175 Holyfield would do pretty good, but have a hard time with the best heavy’s

 

Not good, not good at all. He'd be in the area of Quarry, Lyle , Young and Shavers. I think he loses to :
Ali
Foreman
Frazier
Holmes
Norton
Of course he wouldn't have access to the roids back then which means he probably weighs in around 195 give or take.
Jimmy Ellis might give him fits

 

The best part of Holyfield boxing in the 90's was that Sega existed. If Holyfield fought in the 70's there would have never been a 'Real Deal Boxing' video game and that would be a shame.

 

He’d have a strong presence in the division but wouldn’t be a champion

 

Interesting you chose the version of Holyfield that was begining to decline but was still a world class fighter. That version probably does well in the 70's against many opponents but struggles with the elites.

If he was in the vacant tournament with Ellis, Quarry, Patterson, etc he could potentially win but he'd need to fight tooth and nail. Those guys were all very quick, cerebral boxers and mid 90's Hoylfield had lost a bit of his speed and athleticism compared to the 80's-esrly 90's. I'm also wondering if he'd have the stamina to keep up with their pace going 15 with the extra bulk from weight lifting and older age. He can't be written off, but at the same time I can't confidently favor him to win. A real wild card.

If he replaced Frazier against Mathis for the NY title, he probably decisions Mathis 7 rounds to 5. It might resemble the fights with Ruiz and Holmes.


Contenders he definitely beats in the 70's:

-Bonavena
-Lyle
-Bugner
-Wepner
-Chuvalo


I'm not sure if he beats (potentially close fights he may lose):

-Norton (would be a very interesting and intense fight)
-Shavers (might foolishly try to trade blows and gets stopped)
-Young (he could win, but my gut tells me it might resemble the Toney and Byrd fights which could be a disaster).


A fight with FOTC Frazier:

First few rounds would be one of the most exciting brawls in the history of combat sports. Lots of back forth action as punches land like raindrops. However, by round 5-7 Hoylfield is slowing down and sweating profusely. By round 9-10, Frazier is just tearing him to shreds with brutal body shots and 4,5,6+ punch combinations. Hoylfield drops to a knee and the ref waves it off. Frazier's workrate, stamina, blistering combinations, and iron clad determination drown Hoylfield who can't keep up by the mid 90's with older age and extra bulk.



A fight with Zaire Foreman:

If he boxes smart using his jab, counters, and has responsible defense and ring generalship, I could see him potentially winning, but I wouldn't favor him to win this even with the right mentality and strategy. This was peak 70's Foreman full of confidence who was like a truck going downhill at top speed.

If Hoylfield recklessly slugs it out or gets caught by too many clean bombs early, RIP Hoylfield.



A fight with Champion Ali:

If he were to replace let's say Frazier in Manilla to fight for the title, we get an extremely entertaining fight that is somewhat somewhat similar to the thrilla. Hoylfield would push Ali as far as any opponent did with his combination of technical skill and rough fighting. Both had big hearts and solid chins with only above average punching power, so it would likely go to a decision. I think Ali's slight edge in hand speed and adaptability give him a narrow points win.

I will say though, if it's late 70's Ali beyond Manilla, Hoylfield definitely wins.



A fight with Holmes:

If you replaced Norton with Hoylfield, Holmes would really have to dig deep, but his lateral movement and sharp jab should earn him the win. A very cool fight as long as it lasts. I think you'd need a prime version of Hoylfield to beat a prime Holmes.

 

Let's see what ChatGPT thinks of how a press conference between Holyfield and Ali would go.

Edit: Ugh, why can't I insert images properly? I'll paste the text:

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Me: Assume a world of alternative history where Evander Holyfield at his peak was transported back in time to 1971 and scheduled to fight Muhammad Ali. Write something Ali would say about Holyfield at press conference about the fight?

ChatGPT:
Assuming that Muhammad Ali was aware of Evander Holyfield's boxing abilities and accomplishments, he might say something like:

"Ladies and gentlemen, tonight I face a young man who reminds me of myself in many ways. He's tough, he's determined, and he's got a heart as big as the ring we're standing in. Evander Holyfield, you've made a name for yourself in the boxing world, and I respect that. But tonight, you're facing the greatest of all time. You're facing a man who's been to the top and back, who's fought the toughest opponents in the world and come out victorious. So bring your best, Evander, because tonight you're going to need it. And when it's all said and done, I'll be standing here as the winner, just like I always do."

Me: Wouldn't Ali say some rhymes and be antagonistic? Think of the things he used to say to people like Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, etc.

ChatGPT:
You're right, Muhammad Ali was known for his brash and antagonistic behavior in the lead-up to his fights, particularly against his rivals. Here's a potential quote that he might have said about Holyfield:

"Listen up, people! The champ is here, and tonight I'm facing a so-called 'Real Deal'. But let me tell you something, Holyfield, you're in for a rude awakening. You might think you're tough, but you're stepping into the ring with the greatest of all time. You're like a chicken trying to fly with an eagle. You might flap your wings, but you'll never reach the heights that I have. I'm the one and only Muhammad Ali, and you're just another victim in my path to greatness. So come on, Holyfield, bring your best, because you're going to need it if you want to survive the beatdown I'm about to give you."

Me: Ali liked to give nicknames to his opponents. For example, he called George Foreman a mummy because of the way George would hold his arms out in front of him while boxing. What nickname would Ali give to Holyfield?

ChatGPT:
If Muhammad Ali were to give a nickname to Evander Holyfield, it's hard to know exactly what it would be, but here are a few possibilities based on Ali's history of giving nicknames:

• "The Real Steal" - a play on Holyfield's nickname "The Real Deal," implying that Holyfield's success as a boxer was not earned but stolen.
  
  
• "The Smaller Holy" - a nod to Ali's own nickname "The Greatest," implying that Holyfield is a smaller and lesser version of him.
  
  
• "The Mighty Mite" - a nickname that emphasizes Holyfield's smaller stature compared to other heavyweights, while also implying that he is a formidable opponent despite his size.
  
  
• "The Biter" - given that Holyfield infamously had part of his ear bitten off by Mike Tyson in 1997, Ali might playfully call him "The Biter" as a reference to this incident.

Of course, it's impossible to know for sure what nickname Ali would give to Holyfield, but given his penchant for trash-talking and creativity with nicknames, it's likely that he would come up with something memorable and provocative.

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Real Steal is kind of funny but overall ChatGPT is kind of bad at being insulting. It also ignored my requests for rhymes.