Tell me about Holmes vs Ali please

I recall, possibly incorrectly, that Ali landed a decent right hand in the 1st round? Other than that, complete beat down.

 

It was so brutal to watch. A absolutely complete one sided beat down. Ali refused to quit. He still had that mindset that made him such a great champion. There is a 30 for 30 episode on this fight on ESPN. It was so said to see Ali stuttering his words before the fight

 

On the score of going easy on Ali, opinions of course will vary, but I personally don't think Holmes did go easy.

Leading into the fight he spoke of KO'ing Ali. It was also reported that he was sparring many rounds, sparing nothing on his sparring partners.

Holmes said was only tentative early because he didn't know what "tricks' Ali might have up his sleeve. When Holmes realized, as everyone did, that Ali had virtually nothing after the first round, Larry went about his usual business. I believe Holmes was trying for a clean KO but it became obvious that if he was going to stop Ali, it would likely only be way of rendering Ali as virtual dead man standing - which was very much near the outcome that we saw.

Larry was very bitter in those days (or at least, even more so, lol). He was already behind the starting line trying to make his own name and garner due respect in Ali's shadow. Then Ali came back again. Holmes had every reason to unequivocally remove Ali from the picture. If Holmes had KO'd Ali clean that would've been one thing.

As I saw it, Holmes chanced his arm at doing same, trying to KO Ali - but as the fight progressed, it was clear Ali would not go down and it simply became an ugly beatdown and would continue to be so until Ali was literally dead on his feet, which would likely make matters even worse for Holmes in the public's eye.

If Holmes backed off at any point, it was only very near to the end anyway - a "show" of mercy but also an advertisement of Holmes having some compassion - but really, Larry had already given it his best shot to put Ali away.

 

I think the Ali of the Spinks rematch had enough to lose a wide decision.

 

The ESPN 30 for 30 documentary Muhammad and Larry goes into a lot of detail about this fight. Thomas Hauser's biography of Ali covers alot on it too. According to many the fight with Trevor Berbick was alot closer to how Ali would have fought had he not taken thyroid (the hormone that controls energy and metabolism) medication. Tim Witherspoon was one of Ali's sparring partners leading up to the Holmes fight. Also according to Johnathan Eig in his Ali biography of Ali grew his moustache because his lip got cut in sparring. Veronica Porsche Ali also said had he not gone on the thryoid medication he may have had a greater chance of winning?

 

Holmes didn’t want the fight. But what was he supposed to do? Lose to an old fighter or beat an old fighter. A completely no win situation. Ezzard Charles had this against Joe Louis. Holmes could have gone to town on Ali but sort of held back. Tyson said he averaged Holmes beating Ali when he beat Holmes. Really? Holmes could have really hurt Ali but slightly pulled his punches. Imagine if that was Tyson v 1980 Ali. Revisionist bull crap. Ali was skint and needed the fight.

 

One I don't recall seeing was him throwing his right as hard as he could. He had two usual ways of throwing it. He had the quick right, the kind he threw off the jab or when he saw a quick opening, and then he had a way where he looked like he was winding up (hard to think of a better way to describe it) to throw as hard as he could, which he did when he had someone hurt. An example to see a bunch of these in a row is against Marvis Frazier, when he has Marvis hurt and in the corner. He could have cornered Ali and just kept throwing that over and over but didn't, for whatever reason.

I feel bad for both of them in that fight. Holmes had to take the fight or he'd have been accepted even less, and Ali was having money issues and was forced into it for one last big payday. Just a sad fight all around.

 

I never understood Tyson's view on this. What was Holmes supposed to do? Lose on purpose? Dance around Ali just lightly tapping him the entire fight?

I get that Tyson was young, but so what, his entire education was effectively boxing and its history. He'd have been well aware of everything similar behind the Charles-Louis fight. I'd expect him to have understood how it was just a **** situation for both fighters. Nothing wrong with him having gone out and KOing Holmes though, it's boxing, that's what he was supposed to do. I just don't get why he saw it as some avengence thing. Best guess, simple hero worship of Ali.

 

Hero worship and young Mike could resemble a cult attendant at times.

 

I'm in agreement with almost everyone on this - Holmes didn't hold back, immediately clear mismatch, etc.

My suggestion would be that, if you are an Ali fan - don't watch it. It is very sad and very hard to look at. There is no entertainment value at all, wasn't even slightly competitive.

Same for Terry Norris - Ray Leonard, just incredibly sad and heart-breaking.

 

If I recall correctly Ali took diuretics during training.
Those are banned today and fighters who use them are tarnished as "drug cheats".

 

I think Holmes went hard enough to administer a beating but that he didn't go all out to destroy Ali. Ali should never have been cleared to fight and he should have put a plug in the usual motormouth. Annoying your opponents only works if you are clearly better than them. If you have nothing in the tank then you're writing a check that your ass is gonna cash. I think Holmes did what he was paid to do and that he could have hurt Ali much worse than he did. Ali looked awful, a mobile punchbag.

 

I completely agree. Commentators usually referred to the times he wound the right as "loading up" on it.

 

Tyson was one of those guys — and there have been many in boxing history — who had to get a mad-on for an opponent to make himself train and perform at an elite/peak level. If he had to manufacture a reason to ‘hate’ an opponent as a mental construct, he’d find a way to do it.

I don’t think Tyson spent years seething over Larry beating up the way-past-sell-by-date Ali — but once he signed to fight Holmes he found a motivating factor and bought into it.