Were both Willard and Ali both totally oblivious that they were involved in fixed fights?

How was the Johnson fight fixed? Willard landed clean, and you can literally see Johnson pass out in the footage. Plus, who waits for 26 rounds to take a dive?

 

Well I ain't callin him a truther!

 

Lol, you’re trying to “lead” the witness.

Johnson certainly did admit defeat as at the time.

It was later, when he desperately needed money, he invented the dive claim and sold it to Nat Fleischer - I don’t think Nat believed the story but still did Johnson a favour buying the written claim off him.

The films were still unavailable as at that time - so I guess Johnson had some chance of people believing him.

I read one write up of the fight that literally claimed that Willard KO’d Johnson with a right uppercut. Obviously not true, as per the film.

I could guess they fudged the facts because Willard was described earlier in his career to have KO’d William “Bull” Young with a right uppercut, which brought about Young’s death - therefore, it was Jess’s so-called “killer punch” - so free licence probably demanded that it be the assigned punch that KO’d Johnson.

Of course the punch was actually a straight right hand - and atop an aged Johnson being exhausted in the heat after 25 + rounds, that was no mean punch, a damn good shot - driving Johnson’s head back several inches upon impact.

 

Well said Mel.

 

Yes. A liar. Got beat fair and square.

 

Your premise in each case is entirely false. None of the fights were fixed.

 

Yes! The morning after the fight Johnson met Barney Curley and collected his purse. Curley asked him how he was feeling/Johnson replied,"pretty blue,I never dreamed any man could remain standing if I really went after him .Willard beat me fair and square and here's something you don't know,Johnson them produced 2 gold teeth from his pocket,Jess knocked them out with a left hook,I knew how the crowd would howl if they saw me spit them out, so I swallowed them."Johnson only said he laid down later and when broke he signed a "confession" which he sold to Ring editor Nat Fleischer for about $100.Fleischer didn't believe a word of if and put it in his safe,it was never published. The fight was on the square Johnson ,fat at 37 after years of high living,succumbed to the heat,the strength and power of Willard,and his own weariness .After 20 rounds he had a handy lead,after that the traffic gradually became one way and the Giant Kansan began to land with regularity the final punch was a terrific right hand.Sam McVey was Johnson's chief second,he stated Johnson did not know quite where he was when they got him on his feet.
Personally I think Johnson put up a terrific fight, maybe his best.The fight was scheduled for 45 rds totally unrealistic in that humidity,after 20rds Johnson having failed to put a dent in Willard , knowing he could not go another 25 rds, knew he was going to lose,but he went out on his shield.

 

Johnson lied he got knocked out. Why anyone would drag a fixed fight out 26 rounds would make no sense. He lost and then later lied about it.
I dont think Ali knew Liston was gong to lay down, thats why he was motioning for him to get up.

 

I will echo what others have said, that Johnson Willard was almost certainly on the level.

I think that Ali was as surprised as anybody when Liston went down, and if thee was a script, he clearly wasn't following it.

 

Well if Ali was in on it why was he gesturing for Liston to get up?
He was the most surprised person in the arena that Liston went down.

 

He could have sold it that way on purpose, we don't really know what happened that night. Was it the mob? Nation of Islam? Who knows