A Lightheavy That Could Defeat Foreman or Liston??

Foreman got beaten by the greatest heavyweight in history. Foreman also landed enough bombs to the body and head that night to bury Chris Byrd. Ali however was Ali.

He was very slow and telegraphed his punches yet a great like Joe Frazier and a near great in Ken Norton couldn't find their way to a third round.

I'm assuming the thread is about the best versions of these two, not the non-acclimated take thy time head case that fought Jimmy Young. Even then i'm not sure Byrd would survive Foreman as Young himself was an extremely talented hard to hit durable type of spoiler.

Was he more durable than elusive tho? He was gone as soon as Ike landed a big punch clean. At any rate Liston for me has the power to take him out. I certainly don't see Ike hitting any harder and no it wasn't combination punches that won the night. Liston would keep after him just like Ike did. He had a better jab and set up off the jab better as well as being a lot more experienced.

 

People talking up Liston pushing Foreman back in sparring conveniently forget that Foreman was 19 years old when he sparred Liston.

Mike Tyson says Foreman is the biggest puncher in history. That will do me.

 

I’m almost certain, I’d bet my life on it that Archie Moore and others hit harder than Jimmy Young.

 

You’re judging Foreman on the Jimmy Young fight?

Wow.

 

You’re already annoying me and I’ve barely noticed you exist. Yes I’m judging Foreman on an element of the Young fight- one poster claimed something to the effect no LHW had the fire power to detour Foreman and I think quite a few LHWs hit as hard as Young, I think Ali too.

On the topic another point is, and this is another way of looking at the Foreman-Young fight, a lot of power isn’t even required to detour a guy, even a sturdy one like George.

 

Annoying you? Jesus, that was easy then…but in all seriousness not my intention.

Anyway, to your point I agree but it kind of goes both ways. The smaller guy has to move up and take on Liston/Foreman so is it plausible too many of them, even Archie Moore have the durability to last long enough to get the shots off to rock these two monsters? I’m just not sure about that.

 

Foreman had already won an olympic gold medal and was a pro fighter at this point. Of course he wasn't prime, but to act like he was this 19 year old kid off the streets is disingenuous. Liston himself wasn't exactly at his best as he was in his late 30s at the minimum, and more realistically somewhere in his 40s.

Tyson never shared the ring with Liston and Shavers. Those who did, regard both men as harder punchers than Foreman. Anyways, what does this have to do with the thread?

 

How is it disingenuous? It’s a fact. Where did I suggest Foreman just showed up off the streets? You suggesting that is what I was getting at is disingenuous.

Do you think Liston shifts Foreman as easily when Foreman is 24 as he allegedly did when Foreman was 19? I know of no male athlete who is physically anywhere near their peak at 19.

 

Ok but power alone is not the whole equation. Young's style and approach that night (against not the best version of foreman imo) was not what i'd expect Moore to do. Also, Foreman very nearly knocked out Jimmy Young in that fight.

I also think Foreman hit harder than Ezzard Charles so by your own logic then he is assured to knock out Moore.

 

Your last paragraph where are you even getting this? because I don’t apply this logic anywhere. The point I’m making is a lot of power isn’t required to detour a guy.

It is entirely possible a LHW can keep Foreman or Liston honest, they just have to hit hard enough and I believe Charles, Spinks and Moore could hit hard enough, I haven’t discussed any other finer points of those fantasy bouts with the poster I was originally addressing.

The LHW within reason won’t be walked through as a result of not hitting hard enough, What I’m saying has been proven many times at many weights, even the most sturdy guys can be shut down by average punchers and decisioned.

One example Bob Foster hit hard enough to achieve this, the way he fights however is not conclusive to beating most generic and aggressive HWs like say a Ray Mercer, with the right style and ability just about anything is possible this is boxing.

 

Yes, you’re correct thanks CT. I am
not very wordy or good with my grammar/spelling and I’m shocked I’m still in the job I have to be honest.

 

No one is calling him a kid off the street, you parade this feat off to the world but it’s just ridiculous.

In this sparring Liston is a former HW champion, Foreman is a novice teenager these are facts- both guys are strong but as you’d expect shockingly to you for some reason, Sonny Liston backed him up in sparring because he was and I’m gonna repeat myself for you, a former HW champion and George Foreman was at the time a teenage novice.

 

The light heavy most likely isn't going to beat either Liston or Foreman by out punching them or by feats of strength.
Foreman and Liston are poster boys for why the words big and dumb sound so poetic when used in combination. They are both known for their skills at cutting off the ring, even though neither of them ever demonstrated such skill in an actual fight.
You can move all day on Liston and it is because of, not in spite of, his jab. I don't think that a smaller man could make a living fighting him up close but he needs to set to punch, so a guy that moves, steps in and lets go and then moves has a shot.
Foreman...you have to understand how green a young Foreman really was. Twenty odd amateur fights, very few pro rounds by the time he fought Ali. "Prime" Foreman was a big strong stupid guy and, I imagine, George spent a decade ruminating upon how stupid he was in order to become the fighter he was when he came back. You could fight George a couple of ways, I think. He really neglected his jab as a young man and he didn't move well so he could be outboxed in that way and there were light heavies way better than Peralta. With a referee that enforced the rules and didn't let George push people away, you could get some mileage by getting inside his punching range. He punched top down. Again, you could get inside. land and get out.
I think that Billy Conn would be a fair choice to beat them. His boxing IQ was sooooo far above either Liston or Foreman, even above Ali. Look at the people he fought at 18, 19, 20 with no amateur experience. They wouldn't be able to catch him- he was faster on his feet than Ali, if for no other reason than being 30 pounds lighter, not to mention being more educated and experienced. He would catch them turning and step in to land punches and move away. When you are smart enough to be able to figure out the other man's effective punching range in the first few seconds of a fight, and then are skillfull enough to stay beyond that range and, alternately, to step inside that range and escape again....

 

This.

 

Prime Charles prob gives both a better fight than most would imagine. He had an excellent chin and the movement n smarts to get wins on both. Although I wouldn’t bet it.