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Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jun 10, 2023.


Who wins?

  1. Baer

    37.5%
  2. Carnera, trained by Emanuel Steward

    62.5%
  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    [Deleted by user.]
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2025
  2. Melankomas

    Melankomas Corbett beats your favourite fighter

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    Carnera masters the art of spamming '1-2 clinch' and wins
     
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  3. Mark Anthony

    Mark Anthony Sidney Sweeney got a flat ass Full Member

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    Wlad and Lewis were already far bette than Carnera before Steward started training them, Primo just didn`t have it, Lewis was an olympc gold medalist.
     
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  4. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I haven't seen Carnera on video in awhile so I did a search and found this post I made about him. "From what I've seen Carnera looks like a better athlete than the others (old time big fighters) but he lacked fighting instinct and he did not seem well trained. He is probably the only fighter I've even seen who fought often on the toe of his front foot with his front heel up...no idea why he did it or why his trainer didn't correct it. If Carnera had been born into the Fury family and brought up around boxing, he might have been a force. As it was, he had more in common with Mark Gastineau in the ring than Tyson Fury. Carnera was big, strong, and athletic, but not a boxer." (https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/why-were-the-old-giants-bad.687225/page-3#post-21739347)

    If a trainer was able to connect with Carnera, and IF PC wanted to learn, if he was taught and used good fundamentals, (especially to get off of his front toes), he'd probably be above Max Baer level at least.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I honestly think that Carnera's handlers wrung every drop of talent they could out of him.

    They brought in Abe Attell to train him, and he seems to have done a very good job.

    They got him as far as it was possible to get him, and probably a bit further than many would have got him.

    The bottom line is that he reached his level.

    Now Jess Willard for contrast, is a fighter where the right trainer might have produced a different outcome.
     
  6. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Assuming Carnera is physically identical and the impact of Steward is limited to technical and strategic optimisation, then I still pick Baer. Perhaps not in quite as dominant and destructive a fashion, though likely still by stoppage.

    Lewis and Wlad were vastly more athletic than Primo and that altheticism was a prerequisite for the successful deployment of the style they adopted under Manny.
     
  7. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Manny was an outstanding trainer, but he could not make caviar out of fish eggs.
     
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  8. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    More athletic? How?
     
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  9. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I suspect Wlad and Lewis both had more high twitch muscle fiber than Primo. They certainly both had faster hands, were lighter on their feet, better co-ordinated and were far more explosive punchers. They were huge athletic men. Canera was a huge man.
     
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  10. Mark Anthony

    Mark Anthony Sidney Sweeney got a flat ass Full Member

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    Lewis had faster hands and better footwork, he won olympic gold.
     
  11. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    How much you know dictates success in boxing, if he could be taught how to deal with Baer and kept his wits about him it could be done.
     
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    That's a pretty fair post i reckon. It was also one of the nights where Baer was actually really up for the cup. Primo certainly made strides as a fighter over time but his ceiling was limited.

    So CT i don't think too much would change, certainly not enough to change the outcome.
     
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  13. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wladimir won an Olympic gold too. Both were very accomplished even before Steward.
     
  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Baer - all day; every day.

    Emanuel Steward was brilliant, but they called him Manny; not Merlin.
     
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