Patterson Vs Liston

He could've loaded his gloves, or maybe asked Frankie Carbo to tell Liston to take a fall. Other than that, not really.

 

Put a rubber Floyd Patterson Face on Muhammad Ali and then send him in.

 

Join the Mafia.

 

Pay someone to stab Liston's tires so he's late to the fight and Patterson wins via DQ.

 

Nope. Floyd may be my favorite champ but he simply didn't have the psychological makeup to deal with Liston. He had the tools to make a fight of it but IMO Liston simply had his number mentally.

 

This post is so very truthful, it is painfully true that Patterson was not mentally strong to deal with Liston.

 

Ha Ha Shay.

 

If Floyd, like his team, thought that anything could be different, that fight would have happened in 1958-59.

 

Maybe Floyd Patterson should have listened to President Kennedy and gone all out and beat Sonny Liston.

 

Of late, we’ve discussed a few fighters who were apparently frozen and impaired by their own fear - arguably causing them to perform below their best.

However, it’s interesting that notwithstanding their apparent fear, one could perhaps still argue that certain outcomes would’ve still been the same - such was the comprehensive and emphatic nature of the defeats in question.

It’s one thing to say a fighter was **** scared and therefore understated - but that opinion should be accompanied by exact references to what the said fighter did wrong due to fear and how he might’ve fought otherwise if reasonably calm.

I really can’t see what more Floyd could’ve done against Sonny - about the only other X factor related to fear is decreased resilience -super tense and nervous fighters tend not to take a shot as well they normally would - they also consume more energy via pure nerves in fights that extend into a number of rounds.

 

Although Floyd obviously seemed to lack confidence going into those fights I think the main issue was simply the size and physical disparity.
I know Floyd was used to conceding size and weight in his fights but Liston was simply another issue he was basically the first of the super heavies.
He was always in shape and a honed down 215 pounds Floyd was giving away 25 pounds.
Today Sonny would possibly be coming in at 230 he was a big man.
Floyd on the other hand was basically a blown up super middleweight not even a big light heavyweight.
Just before Sonny KO’s Floyd in the first fight look in the clinch against the ropes he’s manhandling Floyd like a rag doll.
I don’t think in many scenarios against Sonny on top of his game could Floyd have lasted too long.

 

Yes, there's an element of chicken or egg.

Did they got blown away because the intimidation they felt diminished their performance, or were they intimidated because they were shrewd enough analysts of the sport, and their own limitations, to know there's nothing they could do to avoid getting blown away, sooner or later?

In the instances of Spinks vs Tyson and Patterson vs Liston, I think its more likely the latter. That's if intimidation is the right word. It doesn't exactly fit my perception of their emotions, but it's the closest word I can think of that does.

 

Agree Greg.

I don’t think there is a one term fits all description for whatever might impair a fighter psychologically/emotionally in the face of certain opponents.

There’s fear, intimidation, simple lack of confidence etc. to be considered and likely part of a mixed bag anyway.

I believe someone like Tyson when he said that he just feared losing, pure and simple - and in Mike’s case that “fear” likely drove him to some of his greatest performances.

Ali was another guy who admitted to “fear” but again, he efficiently converted that emotion to his utmost, positive advantage.

Before the FOTC, when interviewed by Burt Lancaster (great actor, btw) Ali also more or less said that he feared losing and/or putting on a poor performance/show. Apparently, Ali also saw obligations as a “performer” that he needed to fulfil in deference to a paying audience.

I guess fighters should always go in believing they can win while realistically appreciating and weighing their strengths and weaknesses against those of those of their opposition to calculate their possible strategy.

Other fighters again, like Marciano, never entertained losing and they might’ve been deemed to be over confident relative to paper forecasts - but that very belief in themselves played no small part in getting them over the line.

If Rocky limited his self beliefs to the perception of others, he would’ve been doing himself a disservice and might well have fallen short of what he did achieve.

It is possible that a fighter can underestimate himself and his own abilities - and we’ve seen that play out form time to time.

A fighter like Ollie McCall never seemed to completely shake off the subordinate, sparring partner mentality - lacking the initiative of the true go getters -

Anyway, it’s a fine line - being realistic while being careful not to actually self-fulfil in any way, your own, imagined, worst case scenario.

This rant, all just imo of course. Lol.

 

Floyd should have pulled a Fury and demanded 95% of the purse then if Liston accepted claim ,I ain't fighting this thug to protect the dignity of the heavyweight championship. In other words,Duck,duck,duck...