Did Liston Get Exposed By Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Jul 12, 2023.

  1. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know that some will bring up how Liston was really older than advertised or that Liston didnt take Ali seriously enough but he looked so slow and sluggish on his feet.

    I cant imagine any other great heavyweight champion prior to Liston looking this bad even against this young prime Ali.

    Dempsey, Johnson, Louis, Marciano etc all wouldve done better and obviously would most likely never quit

    Was Liston just exposed as someone who had limited foot speed and lateral movement and couldnt cut the the ring off vs a taller, longer, faster opponent.

    Or would any of these Heavyweights (Dempsey, Johnson, Louis, Marciano) have done similarly as Liston did vs Ali or even worse ?
     
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  2. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He was 34 . .how do you get exposed at 34? Must have done something right in your career if you are going to start picking apart a fighter at age 34. Anyway, Liston came across the Most athletic HW in history coming into prime .. a better boxer ... it's as simple as that imo.
    59 60 Liston probably loses to prime Ali as well
     
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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  4. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I understand that but he was coming off of 2 dominant victories over Floyd Patterson and did so badly. He also quit
     
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  5. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    he sustained an injury and was pulled out of the fight .. Anyway, he was 34 and 35.. That point stands .. Jack and Rocky weren't even fighting at that age and they are in your examples.. He lost to the better boxer. .It happens .. but given he was past his prime , I wouldnt call it being exposed other than yes you can lose to a better boxer ..

    This might be your real agenda here
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think a lot of it had to do with Sonny being far past prime and inactive for most of the previous two years. He was also allegedly fighting with an injured shoulder but I don’t have proof of that..

    With all the above said, I DO think it was the first time Liston had ever been in the ring with a fighter like Ali whose speed and movement was like nothing he had ever seen. In addition Ali tapped into Liston’s psychology by showing no fear or respect for him either before or during the fight.
     
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  7. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    I don't think that he had legs to speak of at that point.
    In the videos of his training at that point, they are holding the heavy bag for him. In that era- and for most of the last century-the purpose of the heavy bag was to move and swing. This made you use your legs to move around the bag so that you could hit it as it swung towards you, maximizing the resistance, and teaching you how to time an opponent as he moved towards you. But, if your guy has no legs (or doesn't know how to move) and the press is there, you hold the bag for him and ooh and aah about how hard he hits.
     
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  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No in a word.

    He was built up into a head to head monster by the press, and he was never going to be able to live up to that.

    After the Ali fights, his reputation was ashes, and he got sold very far short in many cases.

    Obviously Ali went on to become the consensus GOAT, and we have to factor that into the argument.

    Our job in the 21st century, is to navigate a path between these two positions.
     
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It's a fair question but the facts are he fought less than two rounds in thirty months, he was close to 35 , he was arrogant and under trained and he fought an exceptional fighter and nightmare stylistic matchup ... he did get exposed, for what he was in Miami Feb 64 when they fought ... how would the Louis that plodded around after Joe Walcott have looked or the Johnson losing to Willard ? Dempsey and Rocky were long retired at that point ...
     
  10. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    Liston was beaten by a once in a lifetime talent in Ali. It took his advanced old age, plus a generational skill set to stop him.

    I know you have an agenda but Jesus how does that equal "exposed"?

    Up next in the clown world will be " Was Foreman exposed by Ali?" "Was Frazier exposed by Ali?"

    No. They were defeated by the better man.
     
  11. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's different cause Liston didn't have any wins vs atg like Frazier and Foreman and if you want to say that Patterson is an atg then Liston demolished him in the previous 2 fights so the age excuse of Listons age would be a bad one
     
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    'Exposed' is far too strong a word.
     
  13. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Liston was coming off a 1st round KO win against Floyd Patterson. So he wasn't too old to beat Patterson. Going into the fight with Ali, he was a huge favorite. I think it was a combination of him being undertrained plus Ali being the best fighter he ever fought.
     
  14. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich A lot of people have pools Full Member

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    exposed is one of the most overused/misused words in boxing.
     
  15. BoB Box

    BoB Box "Hey Adam! Wanna play Nintendo?" Full Member

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    Exploited by the Mafia maybe not sure if Ali had anything to do with it.
     
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