Sullivan vs. Ali (1880s ruleset)

It is really impossible to say exactly how good John L. Sullivan was. What I do know is: Before he broke his arm, which apparently was never set properly, or never healed properly, he totally dominated the others in his era. That dominance certainly gives me a reason to pause before thinking that Muhammad Ali beats him easily. John L. may bring pressure, and lots of it to Muhammad. I would not pick John L. Sullivan to defeat Muhammad Ali, even in a long, drawn out Queensberry fight, but I have no reason to believe Muhammad will have a really easy time of it either.

 

I'm not sure the ruleset matters that much. I think Ali would stick to Queensbury rules, to now try and make him adapt to another ruleset would just be confusing.
I would imagine he'd stick to his strengths, jab, move, throw right hands from range, the odd uppercut etc. Holding Sullivan's head down in close where possible.

I admire John L. However, by comparison, he's a roughhouse brute but considerably smaller and almost undoubtedly slower than Ali.

What, besides a ruleset that Ali isn't used to, would he bring that Ali hasn't seen before? By contrast, Ali brings a lot that Sullivan had never experienced.
He'd probably be as bewildered by Ali as Ali would be by the rules.

I'd have to pick Ali. I mean, it would take a brave man not to.

 

The fact that he couldn't deal with Corbett's goofy style gives me no reason to believe he could have any chance against someone who had been taught the developments and refinements of boxing over the next 80 years.

 

By far the most important factor in the outcome of his fight with Corbett, was that Corbett was in in his prime, and Sullivan was as far past his prime as any champion has ever been, and still nominally held the title.

However good or bad Corbett was, this is a nonsense argument.

 

Hi Buddy.
I am with you on the fact that the HW of the early 1900s seen on film do indeed look crude and amatuer in their style, judging by what film there is, I would have thought that beating Sullivan would have been fairly easy for Ali, and I can see the likes of say Norton, Shavers, and maybe Quarry having the best of that era.
stay safe buddy.

 

Unless he can land a big right straight out of the gate,no.

Ali beats him under any rule set.

 

I guess we have to start by asking how much of an advantage will the rule set give Sullivan?

The answer is not very much in my opinion.

If this is going to be a Queensbury fight in the 1880s, then it is going to have to be billed as an exhibition for legal reasons.

This means that it is going to be four six or ten rounds.

That probably suits Ali just fine.

The biggest issue is going to be the smaller gloves, which Ali will have to adapt to.

Having said that, use of gloves of a weight that Ali would be accustomed to, was rare but not completely unknown.

He would have a bit of wiggle room in the negotiations.

 

What evidence is there that Sullivan ever beat anyone who didn't fight like a drunken kangaroo?

The sportswriters of the time were totally unreliable too, as they have always been. A few decades later they were claiming that Jack Johnson was no good, despite the fact that he was clearly better than all who'd preceded him. Even in my lifetime, I remember sportswriters characterizing Duran as some sort of sloppy, unskilled brawler.

 

Since there is no film of him, nor any of his opponents apart from Corbett, it is going to be rather hard to prove it either way.

The sports writers of the day are all we have got where Sullivan in concerned.

You can take their opinions, or leave them, but there is no other line of evidence to draw upon.

I would suggest that at the very least, they would be accurate about things like what stance he fought out of, and how his fights unfolded.

 

If Sullivan was in his era and prime?
Not seeing that.

 

One thing I must say Muhammad Ali is incredible.

 

On Guard, Touche.

 

Something that has a chance to come into play: are they using, say, 4 oz. gloves with no hand wraps? There's a CHANCE that Ali's habits might lead him to head-hunting and flurrying that could result in significant hand injury/debilitation to himself.

 

You could really make it interesting if you specified the pre-broken arm Sullivan and the bare-knuckle rule set of the Sullivan-Kilrain fight.