Cruiserweight Holyfield vs some of the 70s crew

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Aug 19, 2023.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    17,545
    12,959
    Sep 21, 2017
    CW Holyfield would have been considered a heavyweight in the 70s (the CW division was made in the 80s). So Holyfield being 187-190 pounds, how does he fare against:

    Bonavena
    Quarry
    Norton
    Mathis
    Ellis
    Young
    1972 Floyd Patterson
     
    CharlieFirpo85 likes this.
  2. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,604
    5,513
    Jan 19, 2016
    He's better than them all but whether he can remain consistent enough to beat them all without picking up a loss is debatable.
     
  3. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    17,545
    12,959
    Sep 21, 2017
    Norton was pretty good and gave Ali 3 hard fights. Norton would have a size advantage over the cruiserweight version of Holyfield. Do you think that could spell victory for Norton?
     
    CharlieFirpo85 and Rodrigo Boom like this.
  4. Rodrigo Boom

    Rodrigo Boom Member Full Member

    127
    116
    Jul 14, 2023
    Definitely, especially if Holyfield didn't get rid of him early!
     
  5. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,604
    5,513
    Jan 19, 2016
    Very possibly although Evander was ultimately used to fighting even bigger men. But only when he himself was 210lbs or so.

    Holy the far more natural fighter, Ken maybe the better all round athlete. I wouldnt be betting on this.
     
  6. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member

    1,669
    2,276
    Oct 25, 2020
    I don't like picking ppl to knock out Patterson bc ppl do it so frequently, and holyfield didn't ko a ton of heavyweights. But the thing is Patterson was a super middleweight with the same early training as Tyson and I see holyfield stopping him.

    I could see young or Norton troubling evander. Im both cases I see a tight decision leaning towards holyfield based on his insane workrate in his prime.

    The rest I see him as a comfortable favorite but part of why he was so exciting was he very rarely had a one sided easy win
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,292
    27,900
    Jan 3, 2007
    A young 190 lbs holy might have beaten some of those guys but I don’t know if he’d go undefeated with that list. He was still very young, inexperienced and nowhere near as strong as he later would be. In fact I’m thinking Ken Norton is one of the guys who might beat a cruiser holy
     
  8. Marvelous_Iron

    Marvelous_Iron Active Member Full Member

    1,292
    1,673
    Jul 9, 2022
    I honestly need to watch more cruiser Holyfield, but I felt he struggled a bit with Tillman and was pretty gassed by round 5

    he for sure loses to Bonavena, Bonavena was a much better inside fighter, had better fundamentals, and was a lot tougher, he drags Holyfield into deep water consistently coming out on top whenever it goes to the inside along the way, and somewhere around or a bit past 7 starts dominating even more

    I think 72 Patterson beats Holyfield by a wide margin too, out boxing him, using is superior speed and combinations, and dominating inside scraps especially round 5 and deeper

    I think Holyfield could out box Mathis, but I would say this is his next most dangerous opponent as Mathis could definitely KO cruiser Holyfield

    I think Ellis and Norton could be close, I'd give Holyfield the best chance against Quarry and Young
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2023
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  9. CharlieFirpo85

    CharlieFirpo85 Member Full Member

    426
    660
    Feb 26, 2020
    He will outbox Bonavena, Quarry, Mathis and Ellis.

    But i don't favor him over Norton, Patterson and Young.
    Prime Norton is too much for him. So i guess he will wear him down with his raw physics and condition. 1972 Patterson is just too smart. If he don't cut, i think he will gain Holyfields respect with some sharp counters and eventually outpoint him. Young in his prime is an unprecedented phenomenon on it's own. Otherwise slick boxers were not really kryptonite for Holyfield as he was rather competitive vs Toney when he was well past his prime. So i guess 50-50 for that.
     
  10. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    17,545
    12,959
    Sep 21, 2017
    Holyfield, especially his cruiser edition, didn't have the type of punching power to blast out Norton. I'd back a guy like Bob Satterfield to be able to blast out Norton quickly over any version of Holyfield.
     
  11. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    17,545
    12,959
    Sep 21, 2017
    In 1972, he beat a prime Bonavena and had a very good showing against Ali who outweighed him by 30 pounds (Patterson didn't lose to Ali due to age or being washed up, even the best version of Patterson would never have beaten any version of Ali between 1964 and 1975). I think even in 72, Patterson gives Holyfield, especially the CW Holyfield, all he can handle, even if he is eventually stopped by Holyfield.
     
  12. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    17,545
    12,959
    Sep 21, 2017
    I think Norton, Quarry and Patterson give him the most trouble, although he has trouble with that whole lot. Between a 190 pound Holyfield and Ken Norton, I slightly favor Norton, but it could turn into a trilogy.
     
  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,292
    27,900
    Jan 3, 2007
    I think it would also depend on exact timing. I think the eleven fight version of Holyfield who fought life and death with an old Qawi in 1986 would lose to just about all those heavies you listed. The 1988 Evander who had unified the cruiser crown and was on the verge of moving up in weight probably beats a few of them. The 1990 rendition who was now a full fledged heavy and winning the title likely beats all
     
    CharlieFirpo85 likes this.
  14. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    17,545
    12,959
    Sep 21, 2017
    I should have specified. I meant the 87-88 version of Holyfield. But I agree with you.
     
    CharlieFirpo85 and mr. magoo like this.
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,292
    27,900
    Jan 3, 2007
    Sorry
     
    CharlieFirpo85 likes this.