Rating Ali's first win over Liston

One of the best wins in heavyweight history.

 

I rate it highly if only for the 1st round. To come out like that and dominate a formidable champion and set your stall out from the outset. Very impressive.

 

Legendary sports writer Jerry Izenburg...who has covered most of the biggest sporting events in the latter half of the 20th Century, said that after the first Ali-Liston debacle in Miami in Feb.1964...Liston's trainers came in to show the writers an Xray that was taken after the fight....one of the writers said out loud..."I wonder who shoulder it really is?"...they all laughed!

 

Do you think that any version of Liston beats any good version of post 1964 Ali?

 

My grandfather who was around in 1964 remembered the build up to the Liston/Ali fight. In a way, Ali was like the Buster Douglas before there was Buster Douglas. Liston was coming off a 1 round KO win of Floyd Patterson, easily one of the best heavyweights in the division at the time. On the other hand, Ali had a near miss against Henry Cooper, who was good, but not as good as Patterson.

My grandfather said that he fully expected Ali to be knocked out by Liston. It's only in hindsight that people think Ali always had this fight in the bag from the beginning.

Also, the leader of the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhammad and his top officials, wanted to distance the NOI from Ali because none of them thought he would beat Sonny Liston and it would have been an embarrassment on them if they backed Ali and then he was knocked out in 1 or 2 or 3 rounds by Liston. It was only after he won that he was publicly embraced by the leadership of the Nation of Islam.

 

After his career, and before he lost his voice, Ali himself said on camera that Liston I was his top win.

 

My grandpa said he saw this fight on Youtube when he was a kid but I haven't seen it yet. Is it really that good?

 

I have to wonder if Liston had taken the x ray in himself if such a crack would’ve been made - let alone anyone laughing along with it.

Izenburg was one of the sports writers who believed that Liston was much older than he admitted to - like 40 yo.

I’ve seen info that suggests that is quite possible - but Izenburg himself never provided one iota of evidence to back his own beliefs re Liston’s age.

Bunch of old hacks, lolol.

 

I think that it was a good win, Liston was competitive but he looked to be tiring and on the way down. If his shoulder was injured which I’m not sure about (doctors word or not) then one has to wonder what would’ve been if it wasn’t so? There was a lot of time left on the clock and we might’ve seen Listons ceiling.

 

Liston was old, subestimated Ali and didn't prepare properly, and had a shoulder injury.
Also, the stylistic matchup favored Ali, especially due to his speed advantage.
Thus, there's nothing special about the win.

 

Im still not convinced this wasnt mob related. Liston took a dive in the second fight and there would be huge odds on him losing.
I think Ali did great regarding how he was viewed coming in the fight but Liston still quit out of the blue and im not convinced on the injury. The fix could be in. It took him 8 years to get the title and then he quits on a 3-3 fight...
There is also the possibility he got injured and didnt want to be stopped by Ali and pulled a no mas
Like everything with Liston this fight is also mysterious.

 

What was an X-ray supposed to show?

Liston claimed bursitis or something, which isn’t a skeletal injury/condition, thus wouldn’t show up on an X-ray.

 

Manny had a lame shoulder against Floyd.

 

The bursitis (which was confirmed) was separate to an additional shoulder injury which was made clear several times. For someone who's posted essay after essay about this topic, you seem awfully clueless.