Crawford is not on the same level as a Canelo

P4P is a fairytale. Imaginary stilts for the smaller fighters. To give them a place at the top table & to make their fans feel better. The reality is if Crawford was fighting men more his own size (180+) hed get blitzed.. unlike Canelo who is still competitive & capable at a weight nearer to his actual size. Canelo deserves much of the criticism he gets but his career shits all over Crawfords despite the BS trinket belt collection. Crawford fights Goompa loompas & corpses.

 

It's very debatable who has more natural talent, Canelo and Bud. Of course a lot of their skills were developed over time, due to training techinques. But lets face it, Canelo has been P4P #1 for a lot longer than Bud has, and there's a reason for that. Bud doesn't have any controversial wins or scorecards, but he also hasn't fought the kind of competition Canelo has. Pacquiao had plenty of controversial wins or decisions but that didn't stop him from being ranked high P4P. If we're going to compare Canelo vs Bud P4P, Canelo's skillset is pretty hard to beat. Canelo is a more fluid and dynamic puncher than Bud, Canelo throws more hooks and uppercuts, Canelo is a better body puncher than Bud. Canelo has better defense than Bud, Canelo is also stronger physically than Bud and has a stronger chin. The one issue with Canelo though is stamina. Bud doesn't fade down the stretch like Canelo has. But I also think that has something to do with the energy Canelo exerts to load up on Big shots, whereas Bud doesn't exert as much energy with his punches as Canelo does.

The natural talent comparison, or who is more skilled, is very debatable. I think it's pretty clear that Canelo's punch technique is pretty hard to top. While his all around effectiveness as a fighter may not be as good as Bud, Bivol or Inoue, I don't think you can ignore Canelo's skillset. Canelo has a lot of intangibles that other fighters just don't have, he showcases different kind of skills than those guys. But if they fight and Canelo wins, I don't think you can just say it was due to the weight. Because again, Canelo has more stamina issues than Bud, if Bud moves up he may have to deal with managing his stamina more than usual, creating more of a test of each other's skill.

 

I’ve never seen Bud get thoroughly outboxed and dominated like Bivol did to Canelo. The same ones saying Canelo was too small against Bivol will celebrate like schoolgirls when Canelo beats Charlo (who came up two classes for the fight) just like they did when Canelo beat Khan. Bivol offered to fight Canelo at SMW but Ginger wisely ducked that fight. He will have no excuses when he takes another beating.

We will see Bud fight bigger guys soon. I suspect he will do better than Canelo did against Bivol. I’ve never seen anyone do that to Bud.

 

I think some fighters are labelled bums to quickly. Crawford takes B level guys out which is not easy to do a lot of A level fighters are just happy to win a decision over a B level guy. I know from sparring less skilled opponents sometimes you just walk forward and slug it out with them instead of out boxing them I think that Crawford takes this approach sometimes. GGG also took this approach in a lot of his fights where he let guys like Geale and Monroe who were B level guys land their best shots only to take them out. I know that Canelo has done this as well but the victories just seem like not everything was on a level playing field. Like I said in a earlier post it is a fair debate about who is better out of Crawford and Canelo. But for me Canelo's career is too suspect to give a fair shake of the sauce bottle.

 

I think a lot of people are talking about Canelo's resume and how Crawford hasn't fought that level of competition. I agree with them. However, Canelo could easily have 3 or more losses on his resume (I personally thought he lost both the first two fights to GGG. I thought he lost to Lara, and the Trout fight was razor close, the KD was sealed it for Canelo). Also, Canelo hasn't exactly ran through his opponents either, I thought the Plant, BJS, and Kovalev fights were all close until Canelo got the KO. Still, Canelo does have the best resume in boxing IMO.

All that said, resumes don't win you fights. And the fact that he won those fights don't have a bearing on whether he beats Bud. Both Crawford and Canelo are world class fighters and both will be in the HOF. But I think this is a very winnable fight for Crawford, who I think with the right gameplan can definitely win a decision against Canelo. But the only question mark for me is how the weight will affect Crawford, because we haven't even seen him at 160 pounds, which might even be too big a jump let alone 168 pounds.

 

I agree with OP. Crawford is not on the same level. He is a level above Canelo.

 

Crawford fights down to the level of his opponent, taking unnecessary risks for the sake of challenge and prolonging fights, because he enjoys fighting and breaking down opponents physically and mentally. The Spence fight he took more seriously for longer and his true level showed.

 

Bud has faced no one in his career even close to Bivol. Canelo came closer to beating Bivol than anyone else has. The problem with your logic is if you can spin a close 115-113 decision into being "thoroughly outboxed and dominated" then no matter what happens you'll just exaggerate anything to fit your viewpoint. While most people had Bivol winning wider than 115-113, there is an argument that Canelo edged 1-4 along with winning round 9, which resulted in a close decision.

Here's the other important point - the reason why Bivol won the other rounds as wide as he did had more to do with Canelo's stamina issues, which was exacerbated by him putting on weight to fight at 175, than Bivol. That's precisely why most people give Canelo a better chance at beating Bivol at 168 but don't think Canelo can beat Bivol at 175. That's because of weight.

Bud doesn't have the kind of stamina problems Canelo has, so it's unknown if Bud putting on weight to fight at 168 will result in him slowing down or gassing like it did with Canelo at 175. So we saw Canelo as too small for 175 because he's already a small SMW to begin with who fought most of his career at LMW who has been pegged as having stamina issues and fading down the stretch. The difference between 154 and 175 is the same difference weight difference as 147 to 168. Another data point to keep in mind is that Canelo moved up 10.5 lbs to fight Chavez Jr after fighting Liam Smith at 154 and dominated him, and Canelo showed unlimited stamina in that match, standing in the corner after every round. The stamina issues were apparent when he had to drop back down to 160 to fight GGG. If Bud is struggling to make 147 lbs, then at this point moving up to at least 154 makes sense for him. And it's not he has to weigh-in at 168, it would probably make sense for him to weigh-in in the low 160s unless he wants to really bulk up. If Bud walks around in the 160s or 170s (as he's quoted as saying a while back) then it's not much weight to put on, and it's more about just not cutting weight to make a lower weight which he's been doing.

It sounds like you expect Bud to beat Canelo, and I look forward to seeing what he can do if that happens, but you're just as guilty of hypocrisy as Canelo fans are, myself included, in trying to paint Canelo fans as being biased and holding Canelo to a different standard. Just remember that Canelo has fought a much higher level of competition than Bud, and the Canelo Bivol scenario is very different than the Bud vs Canelo scenario, because #1) Bivol is well conditioned, has a high work rate, so it's difficult for anyone to win a decision against him, but he is not a big puncher #2) Canelo has stamina issues, is a low output fighter but is a big puncher.

So it's an entirely different situation, but you're right, Bud has never been outboxed and defeated like Canelo was vs Bivol, but Bud hasn't ever fought anyone like Bivol, let alone at a high weight class, so that's a moot point. But your point still stands which is what makes a Canelo vs Bud match fun to think about. Because Bud would be up against it like he never has before and it'll be interesting to see what he can do in a fight of that magnitude.

 

It all depends on how you look at it. But in terms of pure athleticism, Crawford looks to be the better athlete. Especially when you consider foot speed which has never been Nelo's strong suit. However, Canelo still has great handspeed, timing and would be the best counter puncher that Crawford would have ever faced. That could easily offset the physical advantages Crawford has. Like you said, Canelo, despite the limitations, in particular stamina, is very skilled. It could very be a situation where you bite off more than you can chew. To tell you the truth, it's highly doubtful the fight happens. Look at how much trouble it took for the Spence fight to happen and they were in the same division.

 

Can't argue with you on that. If you're talking resumes, Nelo's blows Crawford's out of the water. But you know these P4P rankings also have to do with how dominant you look. That's why Crawford and Inoue are on top right now.

 

He found his ceiling but he has always pushed himself and consistently challenged himself and even with all the controversies I can’t see a better resume for sure among current active fighters and possibly all time. It just depends on how much credit he loses for pizzing hot?

 

I get what you’re saying but Porter has been a nightmare for pretty much every one he’s fought, he is so awkward

 

I only read as far as your ludicrous 115-113 score for Canelo's loss to Bivol The Ginger nutt hardly won a round he was beaten battered & humiliated. Dmitry made him look like a club fighter. That explains why Ginger ducked the rematch offer at 168 for all the belts because he knows in his heart he cannot legitimately beat Bivol.

 

Exactly this I think this is to far for Crawford

 

These Crawford threads get pumped out more than the site's ad's.