Mount Rushmore of HW punchers

Foreman
Shavers
Liston
Tyson with Lewis very close.

 

Wilder made 10 defenses and the only ranked opponent he KOd was Ortiz unless I'm missing something. What's your point? Anyone can have 10 title defenses against inferior opponents.

You deliberately missed the point in me bringing up Lamar Clark. I EXPLICITLY stated Wilder was better than Clark and was only pointing out that having a high number of KO's against low level opposition isn't proof someone is an elite puncher. Stop being obtuse because you don't want to address what I wrote. Why did Wilder miss so many elite names in his era? If he had KO'd Joyce, Whyte, Hrgovic, etc then it would be a lot more impressive. Do you disagree with that...?

 

Not too many fighters are as durable as Joe Frazier. Too stop him it took a Herculean effort by Foreman. I'm talking about stopping him. Review that bout in Jamaica and count how many clean powerpunches Foreman landed in less than two rounds. Not many heavyweights would have the guts to stand in there and go for it like George. Joe was dangerous and firing back until the very last knockdown.

Here's list of heavyweights with a better chin and durability than Frazier.
1....nobody

 

Honestly it's amazing how much people try and downplay the achievement of stopping a guy as tough as Frazier. I cannot think of a single boxer who could get dropped 5x by Foreman and then gets up for a 6th time banging his fists together ready to continue. Frazier was tougher than an old army boot.

If the ref didn't stop it, he probably could've gotten up another 3x and would die in the ring before he quit. He had an iron chin.

 

Yes, is it something that annoys me, then it's deliberately confusing defences of a trinket with actual defences of the undisputed title. Compare these 10 "defences" with Louis's and Ali's first 10 defences for example.

 

Completely agree. As per my thread below he's beaten about the same amount of ring ranked contenders as Cleveland Williams who cops a lot of flak.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...-ring-rated-contenders-defeated.706915/page-4

Of course Cleve lost a lot more than Wilder but the comparison really boggles the mind.

That's the one problem with Wilder, he doesn't have sweet bugger all runs on the board with top 10 fighters. Look at Foreman and Shavers records against non rated fighters.

On the plus side we can see the absolute devastation his punches cause, and to quite big men. He also dropped Fury a lot but guys like Shavers dropped Holmes and staggered Ali too. Another point is he didn't finish Fury. A KO win over Usyk would do a lot for him in multiple ways.

Hopefully he will fight a Joshua or Usyk in the near future. Usyk much more so than Joshua as ko'ing Joshua wouldn't be remotely as striking as ko'ing Usyk.

 

Yes, KO'ing Usyk would certainly send a message, as not only is Usyk hard to hit clean, he also takes a punch on the chin very well when it lands.

Joshua right now seems to be lacking too much confidence and have a of course already been stopped by a guy who has no other noteworthy stoppages on his record.

But for pure power I think Wilder is something else. The force of the right he landed on Fury in their last fight which rippled down the fat on Fury's back... Whatever one can say about Fury's conduct outside of the ring, getting up and surviving after taking such a shot says a lot about his resilience and championship pedigree when he actually manages to get in it.

 

Devoting a mountain to the four boxers who could hit hardest in absolute terms, would be a bit like devoting a mountain to the four men who could **** the highest in human history.

It is an interesting metric, but it has nothing to do with greatness, or even brilliance.

 

I'm not so sure my man. No-one cares how high pee pee travels but just have a look at the power threads in here over the years. People are obsessed with power. I'd go so far as to say some almost, or do, put it on the level of greatness.

 

I give you two options.
1: Carve a mountain for Frank Herald, Curtis Sheppard, Ernie Shavers, and Deontay Wilder.
2.: Honor the people who pissed the highest, who wee at least the pinnacle of their chosen sport.

 

Everyone Wilder faced during his reign was ranked by the WBC, including Tyson Fury, who Wilder floored twice and made his eighth successful WBC heavyweight title defense against. And Tyson Fury was ranked when Wilder lost his WBC title to him in his 11th defense

So, Wilder won the title from the WBC champion (who would qualify as a ranked fighter) and defended it 11 times against WBC ranked oppponents, 10 times successfully. And then beat the #2 ranked WBA contender in his last fight to now be ranked #1 by the WBA (as well as the WBC).

So, you saying he knocked out one ranked fighter is being a little OBTUSE yourself, to put it kindly.

Why aren't you guys all such assholes to the other fighters on the list?

Where was Bob Stallings (with his 21 wins and 24 losses) ranked when Shavers got floored and lost to him? Pick any org you like. What was Bob's rating when Earnie crapped the bed against him?

 

Foreman
Wilder
Tyson
Lewis

 

Nobody wants to hear this crap about "ranked by the wbc". You've been saying this over and over for years. They're trinket victories. He had ONE belt out of all FOUR. If you only have 1 belt and then do not fight ranked fighters of the other other 3 sanctioning bodies, you are only fighting 1/4 of the best fighters.

Statistically, that isn't very impressive no matter how you spin it. Wilder was just a big fish in a small pond.

So yes, I repeat what I said: you're being obtuse by ignoring the fact he hasn't faced that many guys ranked in all 4 sanctioning bodies, who are in their prime, durable, etc.

Do you HONESTLY think that people wouldn't rate Wilder's power higher if you swapped these opponents:

-Molina
-Washington
-Szpilka
-Duhaupaus
-Arreola

With 5 of these...?!?

-Wladmir
-Pulev
-Hrgovic
-Dubois
-Ruiz
-Joshua
-Povetkin
-Usyk
-Joyce
-Chisora
-Whyte

 

Elites like Hrgovic and Joyce?

When Wilder lost his title, Joyce and Hrgovic were 10-fight pros.

Tyson Fury was the ELITE champion Wilder pursued instead of fighting unranked novices like Hrgovic and Joyce.

Fury who was Ring Champion when 2018 began. Fury who was the #1 Ring contender when Wilder fought him in their second fight. Fury who was the RING champ when Wilder fought him the third time.

Wilder missed fighting those "unranked elites" because he was fighting the best heavyweight in the world (top Ring heavyweight Tyson Fury) three times in five fights instead.

You bash him for not fighting Ring enough Ring contenders as champ, and then, when he fights the top Ring heavyweight three times, you bash him for not fighting guys who were unranked at the time.

You are clearly someone who has ZERO open mind about this.

 

Okay, so you're dying on the hill that it is BETTER for Wilder's rating as a puncher to defend his title against "contenders" like Molina, Washington, etc INSTEAD of contenders like Whyte, Ruiz, etc...?

If that is what you believe, you are NUTS.

As for being tied up with the Fury trilogy, I'd give him some leniency if he actually, y'know, BEAT Fury at least once in those 3 attempts. Dropping Fury is impressive, but you know what's more impressive than dropping an opponent? Winning. Right now Wilder is just a taller Shavers/Max Baer with crude skills and a mediocre resume. His power is very obvious, but we can't rate it properly until he beats more rated opponents who have a pulse. Let's see him in there with Usyk and actually win, then maybe we can talk.

I already have Wilder in my top 4 for my Mt. Rushmore but I am not willing to crown him #1 until we see him fight better opponents. You can cry about that and bring up wbc rankings all day if you want.