A deeper dive on Billy Conn's greatness.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Oct 1, 2023.


  1. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Here's a task for each of you. When you're hanging out with a friend who currently follows Boxing and has some basic but relatively limited knowldege of the sport's history, ask them how great Billy Conn was. Most likely, they'll just say that he is that smaller guy that almost defeated Louis, but then got knocked out, aside from that, they know little else. Which is a shame, because a fighter like Conn should be remembered more fondly. So, here's my career analysis of him. Although, there is going to be an analysis of their fight during the second half of this post, Conn deserves it.

    After a series of wins against weak opposition, Conn would face some monsters. He would manage to defeat 3 champions in back to back fights. First of all, he would defeat the #4 rated Welterweight in the world, and future Welterweight champion, Fritzie Zivic. Right after, he would soundly defeat the #6 rated Middleweight, and former Middleweight champion, Eddie ''Babe'' Risko. Not even 2 months later, he would win a close battle against another former Middleweight Champion, Vince Dundee.

    He would then have a particularly tought fight against the #7 rated Middleweight, Oscar Rankins, who was considered the winner my a small minority, even dropping Conn in the 2nd round for a 9 count. He would then have another tough contest against the #3 rated Middleweight, Teddy Yarosz, yet again another former Middleweight champion. In case you haven't realized, the Middleweights were playing hot potato with the championship during the early-mid 30's, as was the case with the Heavyweights before Louis came along.

    He would then lose to the underrated former Welterweight Champion and at the time #5 rated Middleweight, the genuinely great Young Corbet III. He would then win in an unpopular decision against Teddy Yarosz in their rematch, ralying back late in the fight. He would have more sucess however in his rematch against Young Corbet III, this time winning a clear decision. Luck would frown upon him next, when he would lose against the future Middleweight champion Solly Krieger, who had lost against about half of the division's contenders in 1937 prior to beating Conn before 1938 came around.

    Conn would then claim a win over the former contender Erich Seelig, prior to losing in his third match against the #8 rated Yarosz. He would then start facing some Light Heavyweights, his first victim being the #5 rated Ray Actis, who would fall in the 8th round. It was after that win, when Conn would really show why he was one of the greats.

    He would manage to avenge his loss against the #2 rated Middleweight Solly Krieger, and then he would manage to defeat the #1 rated Middleweight contender, Fred Apostoli, twice back to back. It should also be noted that Apostoli was the NYSAC Middleweight title holder at the time. He would then defeat Krieger again for good measure. And then, Conn would finally become king, albeit in the division above, by beating the #2 rated Light Heavyweight, Melio Bettina, to gain the NYSAC title and the vacant Light Heavyweight crown. After defeating the fringe Heavyweight contender Gus Dorazio, he would proceed to defend his title against Bettina in a rematch in which he won again, then he would twice defeat the #1 rated Light Heavyweight, Gus Lesnevich, in his second and third defense of his crown. Lesnevich would also proceed to gain the Light Heavyweight crown in the short future, after Conn would set his eyes out for the Heavyweight championship.

    First to fall was the underrated #2 ranked Heavyweight, Bob Pastor, who would not go further than the 13th. Next were the former top 3 Light Heayvweight contender Al Mcoy, the #8 rated Heavyweight Lee Savold, and the former Heavyweight contender, Gunnar Barlund. Billy Conn was now the #1 rated Heavyweight.

    Then, the big one, the one he is most famous for. His fight against the legendary Joe Louis, the Heavyweight champion of the world. Despite losing the fight, it might just be the clearest demonstration of how great his ability was. There is constant talk about Louis almost losing to the smaller Conn, leading many to believe that other bigger greats could easily replicate what he was just a bit short of accomplishing. But this is a disservice to both men. This is what Conn and his trainer, John Ray, said about Louis.

    “Get me in with this guy ! He wouldn’t be able to hit me with a handful of rice !”

    “You guys have got it all wrong. You don’t box Joe Louis. You can put all the boxers you like in front of him and he’ll find them. No, you need to fight Joe Louis. You need to fight Louis every minute of every round, you need someone who can take his punches and give him some back. That’s how you beat him.”

    What is Louis's biggest strength ? His offensive ability. The jab, the right hand, the left hook, the uppercuts, the inside fighting, the combinations, the counter-punching, the power, the speed, the accuracy and the finishing ability. How do you deal with all this ? Simple. You take away his balance. After all, if you're unbalanced, then there's nothing you can do efficiently in the ring. It's the most crucial part of a Boxer, and the foundation behind Louis's offensive capability.

    What's Louis' biggest weakness ? His methodical feet. Some have critized Louis for them and have called him a plodder, others have recognized it's mechanical advantages in balance, leverage, economy and at cutting off the ring. And while the latter group is most certainly correct in their perceptiveness of those qualities, that doesn't mean the former group's words don't have any merit. Louis was a pressure fighter, but a passive one. Unlike a Tyson or a Frazier, who would come forward aggressively and wouldn't allow their foes to even breathe, Louis's virtual threat of his fists was what exuded the pressure. His power alone was terrifying enough for most opponents, add Louis' feints and it's no wonder most of them folded like paper with that type of pressure. As a result, they would create angles disadvantageous to them, which played right into Louis' hands. He didn't move in to them, they went to him instead, dynamic movement isn't needed in such scenarios.

    Conn wasn't like the rest. His feet were just as educated as Louis', and much more elusive and dynamic as a whole, he wasn't just hopping around flashily, every wide step had a purpose. Meaning that Louis couldn't just wait for Conn to create an angle suited for him to punish,and as such, the lack of dynamism in his footwork was exposed. Louis' balance was disturbed as well, Conn would initiate the clinches, push Joe around and bury his head into his chest, and Louis just could not constistently commit to his offensive brilliance. All these deadly shots that Louis had drilled into himself could not be executed with Conn fighting the perfect fight against him, mere cuffing punches weren't enough to bring down Conn's granite chin. His foundation was taken away from him.

    So why did Conn lose ? That's also simple, he made a mistake. That mistake was not necessarily going toe to toe with Louis, he was doing that all night. It's much more simple, and terrifying on Louis' behalf. He missed a punch. That's it. He missed a left hand and then Louis hit him with a combination in retaliation. After some more, Conn got knocked out. One simple mistake anybody could do, and he was knocked unconsious for it, because Louis almost never misses a beat. Joe Louis was just too great for the smaller but brilliant Billy Conn to overcome in the end.

    After that, he would manage to defeat the Middleweight champion, Tony Zale, before going to the army. A few years later after his return, he would once again face the Heavyweight champ, but he wasn't the same. He couldn't replicate what he had done 5 years ago, even against a declining Louis. His career was basically over at this point. And that was that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2023
  2. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich A lot of people have pools Full Member

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    Has anyone else got that much of a legacy boost from a KO loss?

    This isn't a diss at Conn btw I'm genuinely curious I can't think of anyone at the moment.
     
  3. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Vitali, technically.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He has so much more than the Louis fight going for him.

    If you want to see how good Conn was, then look at some of his early wins over name fighters, and look how old he was when they happened.

    Then look at the other light heavyweights that he shared an era with.

    Even at heavyweight, he was the only guy who dominated Bob Pastor, including Joe Louis!

    The war cut his career short in his absolute prime, but who knows how far he could have gone otherwise?
     
  5. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Conn dominated as a welterweight, middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight . Not many fighters can have the success he did through all those weight classes
     
  6. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Active Member Full Member

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    Excellent write up, though I would add that Conn's diminishing stamina and reduced foot speed greatly contributed to his loss in the first Louis fight.

    He simply didn't move around as fast in the 13th. He was gassed from the rallies he had made in the previous 2 rounds and now he was basically target practice.

    I don't think Conn had a chance to survive the 13th, and if he somehow did, the 14th and 15th would have been worse.

    If Conn didn't get knocked out, Louis would have won on points.
     
  7. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    You're becoming a legend in here fr. I can't wait to read Pittsburgh Kid. His Louis fights ofc sum of the most important fights in boxing history.
     
  8. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Agreed on both counts. Fitting Harry Greb into the maximum word count of 1 post, will likely prove an impossibility.
     
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