Who DOESN'T Rocky Marciano beat in a H2H match?

So it's a thread made out of spite for Marciano fans, gotcha. You just couldn't let those statements go, despite the fact that it's so apparently obvious that those claims are wrong. You just have to make everyone agree with you, due to your inability to let things go and ignore people who are wrong. Just do yourself a favor and indulge yourself in something more productive and meaningful.

 

Nobody is "making" anyone do anything. They are free to be as delusional as they want.

We are just trying to see whose going to be honest and consistent with their criteria. If someone can't admit any boxer in 100+ years of boxing history can beat Rocky then I know not to bother going back and forth with that person.

 

Cause I've seen the Marciano-Ruddock thread, and I know that he is the one who actually came up with the idea of this thread.

This is what Glass City Cobra said in the Ruddock thread, ''I would like to see the Rocky fans tell me at least 2-3 boxers they think could flat out beat Rocky with a detailed explanation on why they could beat Rocky. That should be interesting.'' . And you did just that. Are you really trying to sell me the idea that this wasn't born out of spite, just because you said so ?

 

I have seen die hard Ali, Duran, Robinson, Louis, even Mayweather and Tyson fans admit some opponents could be bad matchups or that they would flat out lose.

This seems to be far less common with Rocky and you know that as well as anyone. It's actually quite fascinating the lengths people will go to move around their criteria and come up with strange arguments.

 

You've been on this forum for literally twice as long as I've been, 6 full years, and have 8000 posts here, there is no way you don't know who the Marciano fanboys are. This thread wasn't made out of any genuine curiosity, but out of spite because some ignorant posters made you angry. I remember recently seeing you have a vitriolic back and forth with CST80 because he disagreed with you on something. All I'm doing is calling you out on your crap. I don't rank Marciano highly H2H, by the way, if that makes you feel better.

 

Maybe I missed the Dempsey craze. Not saying you're lying, I just don't remember seeing too many super hardcore Dempsey fans but you've been here longer.

I'll give you Tyson for sure, that's a lighting rod for controversy tbh.

 

I never said I don't know who the Rocky fans are.

I haven't engaged with all of them at length, nor did I get a chance to ask all of them who they think Rocky can't beat and get an honest answer. We also have some new members within the past 2 years I'm not that familiar with who I've seen support Rocky. This is a litmus test to see which end of the spectrum they're on.

Now are you done derailing the thread? Why are you going so hard in the paint to try and prove Hotep and I are just spiteful and biased? I don't even think we've talked before and you're already trying to start drama. Calm down lol. I have defended Rocky multiple times and said his record still holds up for top 10 historically and that his h2h ability is quite high for someone in the cruiser size. I didn't suggest this thread because I was "mad" people picked Rocky to beat Ruddock...I'm not some huge fanboy of Ruddock. I'm genuinely baffled by some of the arguments I saw in that thread. Welterweights going the distance with huge 220+ punchers...comedy.

I didn't get ugly in my discussion with CST80 just because he "disagreed" with me, he flat out lied and was being a hypocrite the way he dissected Spence's resume. I can tell you exactly how that convo went and how he basically just disappeared when I applied pressure, he failed to address several points I was making. For context, I picked Spence to win and was a freaking Spence fan and then gave Crawford credit for winning giving him full props. CST said the win meant nothing and Spence was a hypejob so Crawford isn't p4p..

There are several posters I have gotten into disagreements with and I don't just automatically insult them or become spiteful...ask Swag, John Thomas, or Contro literally a few days ago I didn't insult Contro even tho I strongly disagreed and left the convo alone. Even in the Ruddock thread I didn't insult Janitor.

 

That goes without saying

 

Because when he fought Walcott, Jersey Joe was 38 years fighting in his penultimate fight of his career spanning 22 years, and Walcott was still way ahead in the scorecards going into the 13th and had Rocky not landed that right hand he would have lost to a wide unanimous decision. And that was against an older, more stationary Walcott than the one Louis and Ray fought in the mid-late 1940s.
People like to stretch Walcott's prime but I am not convinced that at 38 the guy was still prime, especially not after so many wars.
Walcott hit his prime at a much more reasonable age of 31 when he came back during WW2 and cleaned out the division to fight Louis for the title. He was probably still at the edge of his prime for the first couple of the Charles fights but his success later on was more about Charles slipping than Walcott getting better. It had more to with him learning Charles' style better as they had fought tons of rounds against each than anything, and his win in their 4th bout was controversial.

Speaking of Charles, he was clearly past his prime given his recent performances against contenders and still gave Marciano 2 very difficult fights.

Given how close to defeat these guys brought him when past their primes, I think it's reasonable to assume that if they were at their best they'd have at the very least performed better in which case they would have won.

 

So you want to judge them and see in which spectrum they belong when it comes to Marciano, because you happen to know better and want to seperate the ignorant from the non ignorant. That's just arrogant on your behalf. You have the freedom to do whatever you want, but I'll say that it's in poor taste when that happens to be the case. Maybe it might not be Hotep Kemba's intention, since he said he is new to the sport and might actually want to learn, but it's certainly yours, and it's not admirable.

I'm not trying to start any drama with either you or Hotep Kemba personally, and I'm willing to cut Hotep Kemba some slack. I called out the disingenuous nature of this thread, which is true on your part, due to your comment in the Ruddock thread, and then you attempt to guilt trip me into believing I'm in the wrong for doing that. I know personal drama between posters when I see it, and this isn't it. Go to the general forum and see Pimp C with Midnight Prowler and Kiwi Boxer if you want to see real drama. It's pathetically childish drama, and Pimp C calling them goofies makes it hard to take seriously, but the negative feelings are genuine. I haven't outright insulted you once, closest thing I did to that is calling your dishonesty ''crap''. I just pointed out your childishness and told you to do something better than waste your time on Marciano. As if we haven't been beating the Marciano dead horse with another dead horse for years here. But I'm willing to end this back and forth with this post, since neither of us want it to continue.

Him thinking that Spence being a hypejob or anything else he claimed he was, is not lying. I know Chris, and he believes the things he says, even if they're outright wrong at times. The way you're making it sound right now, it just seems like you simply disagreed on Spence's quality as a fighter and win. I far from remember the particular words you 2 exchanged, but I do remember you provoking him at some point or another, and questioning his sincerity on what seems to have actually been a misinterpratation on your behalf. Maybe that's why he was also just as angry as you were.

 

See my response to Glass City Cobra for anything prior to the edit, I think that about covers it up, I'm willing to believe you as far as your intentions goes, but not his. As for the edit, I think Marciano would have clearly prevailed over fighters like Jack Johnson, Schmeling, Norton and Patterson. All of those are top 20 worthy all time great Heavyweights, give or take. I don't think that anyone smaller or similar sized to Marciano could clearly beat him with sheer skill, except maybe Charles. The only way is to outmonster him, which might just be limited to Sam Langford for similarly sized fighters.

Dempsey, Frazier, Holyfield, Holmes could lose, but they could also win. The latter 2 are also aggressive swarmers like Marciano and not much bigger than him, and are thus always in trouble of getting hit with something big from Marciano which could very well knock them out, the opposite is also true, with Marciano also being in danger of getting stopped. Holmes could just be overwhelmed eventually if he doesn't manage to hurt Marciano with his shots and keep him away, but he also has the skills and toughness to outpoint him. Holyfield is the same, and he did have a tendancy to go to war, which could be a grave mistake against Marciano. That said, I think all would beat him more times than not.

I think the Klitschkos, Liston, Foreman, Lewis and Tyson just overwhelm him, and knock him out. The Klitschkos were too long and big, they both hit insanely hard, could keep their distance, and had solid skills for their size, although not anything too mindblowing. Foreman would push him around using his superior physical strength, and then knock him out, like he did to Frazier. Lewis was big, strong, hard hitting, and simply had enough skill to be a good fighter in any size, something the slightly bigger Klitschkos didn't have. He would beat him similarly to how he beat Tyson. Practically whatever Marciano did, Tyson did it better. He hit harder, was faster, better defensively, had better footwork, was more explosive, was a better counter-puncher and a better combination puncher. Only think Marciano had over him is that he was better in the pocket, that's it. Tyson and Foreman might knock him out in the initial rounds. Liston was skilled, a huge puncher, had a good Ring IQ and had an outrageous reach advantage. Some say it was exaggerated, but I don't think Marciano would close the distance in a guy who had at least 12 inches of length on him, and would get pummeled sooner or later.

I think Ali would just dance circles around him, and I don't think he would be in much danger of being overwhelmed here. His chin was certified granite of the highest order, and had to deal with far more suffocating pressure than Marciano would produce against Frazier, while only having 2 fights after 3 years of inactivity, yet still did well for a good part of the fight.