Who DOESN'T Rocky Marciano beat in a H2H match?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Hotep Kemba, Oct 22, 2023.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Prime Seamus bears Allah. I caught you past your prime
     
  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    And that's my issue with Rocky fans. They sometimes have a hard time being critical and objective. Nobody is criticizing Rocky due to the fact the best fighters of his era were past their prime, he fought who he was supposed to fight. But if a 38 year old Walcott who had been through some rough wars was the champion at the time, and some of the other contenders were also pretty worn out and past their prime (Charles, Moore, etc), it speaks to the quality of that era as a whole. Rocky is obviously strong, tough, etc, but the fact he went life and death in such an era suggests his ceiling/peak potential as a fighter h2h wasn't particularly high. Rocky would struggle with prime Walcott, let alone a prime 6'3 220+ mover with slick footwork.
     
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  3. Hotep Kemba

    Hotep Kemba Member Full Member

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    Would you say Rocky's era (how ever long you think that era is, 7 years I guess) is the weakest amongst the Heavyweight era's?
     
  4. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No definitely not when Lewis retired there was some pretty weak champions aka John Ruiz for one.
     
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  5. Hotep Kemba

    Hotep Kemba Member Full Member

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    Oh wow, I completely forgot about the early 2000's, which is funny because that's around the time I first got into boxing and American sports.

    Argument for weakest era pre 80's mayhaps? I genuinely have no idea, I just always see it mentioned as a transition period, just after the old fighters had left their primes and just before the new talents entered theirs.
     
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  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Nothing about that is strange. I rate Frazier higher on my ATG list, but I'm not sure Frazier could ever beat Vitali with modern rules.
     
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Somewhere just below average. I haven't done a comprehensive list of the various HW eras. Definitely not the worst, I'd say the current era of HW's may be one of the weakest because almost nobody is fighting each other and many contenders simply look horrible. Usyk is the exception in terms of skills and ability. The Jim Jefferies era was also pretty bad with 2 of the best heavies (Corbett and Fitz) being glorified super middleweights.
     
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  8. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Yeah early 2000's post Lewis was...horrendous. You had John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, an ancient Holyfield, and James Toney as 4 of the best fighters.

    Post Ali was a similar situation. You had old Norton, Young, Spinx, Shavers, Cobb, Cooney, etc. Holmes finally cleared all that up and became the top dog for a while, but it was horrible between 77-82 with a fat old Ali holding the title hostage before he finally went away.

    Generally speaking, whenever a great champion retires, the next era can get pretty bad.
     
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  9. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Active Member Full Member

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    Even contemporaries considered the era weak. This is what Sharkey had to say on that matter back in 1954 (instagram post with quote):
    This content is protected
     
  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    25 sparring partners seems a bit much. What exactly does he mean? Over the course of their whole career? In one training camp?

    Rocky and Al Weil were both pretty stingy and didn't like spending money, so maybe that's why they didn't have many sparring partners.
     
  11. Bigcheese

    Bigcheese Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He's too small for a modern heavyweight but he's still good enough to beat some quality heavyweights imo.
     
  12. Pedro_El_Chef

    Pedro_El_Chef Active Member Full Member

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    25 to prepare for a fight. I think he meant it as a the uppermost limit.
    The gist of it was that there were not as many talented people fighting at the time, which might explain the dominance of the old guard during the time period.
     
  13. Hotep Kemba

    Hotep Kemba Member Full Member

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    I think 2015-2021 was incredibly weak, but Usyk, Joyce and Zhang in addition to Fury, AJ and Wilder has made this exact moment in time decent from a talent perspective, even though they're not fighting eachother.

    Although to play devil's advocate on myself, I don't really rate 2023 Identify Crisis AJ very highly and I think Wilder and Joyce imparticular are two of the most unskilled, overrated boxers I've ever seen. People reference Joyce's amateur pedigree, as if amateur boxing is some sort of more skilled version of professional boxing? Wow, the guy that competes in by far the worst amateur division talent wise (SHW), and who can throw 100 punches a round is very good at a sport where literally the only thing that matters is how many punches you connect, so skilled. That and Wilder is commonly cited as the hardest puncher ever even though he's never fought anyone with a notable chin. The fact he's not been able to KO Fury cold pretty much invalidates this claim imo, because Fury's chin is pretty average despite his large size. Does anyone here think Fury gets up from the shot that Joyce took in round 3? I didn't think so lol.

    Actually I change my mind lol. This isn't a talented era, but it does, for a very brief time, have the potential to be a fun and competitive era.

    Although to play DOUBLE Devil's Advocate, the Heavyweight division tends to be overrated anyway and most Heavyweight era's kinda suck from a P4P talent perspective and a depth perspective, so maybe this era actually is decent relative to others?

    Idk, I clearly haven't made up my mind yet :lol:
     
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  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Who does Rocky Marciano not beat in head to head matches?

    Literally nobody.

    He literally beat everybody he ever fought.

    He lost an amateur match if you take any comfort from that.

    We can't reasonably ask a lot more of him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2023
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I personally think that Sharkey's era was stronger.

    Some will disagree.

    Even so, Marciano didn't loose key fights, then break down and cry for no apparent reason.
     
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