Who DOESN'T Rocky Marciano beat in a H2H match?

Did Marciano have to beat a Giant like Dempsey?

 

Well they are highly ranked up in their respective divisions h2h.

 

Andre Ward retired undefeated.

He literally beat everybody he ever fought.

I guess that means we should favor Ward over Ezzard Charles, Michael Spinx, Bob Foster, Roy Jones, James Toney, Archie Moore, etc.

 

Of course not, but it means that we don't have the template for beating him.

 

This is an excellent list.

Only two things I would change. I think Dempsey wins a war against Marciano. He was bigger, faster, stronger, and more powerful imo. I also believe he had the better defense.

I also used to think Holmes would beat Marciano but I've changed my mind. Here's part of a post from mine a little back.

Holmes simply wasn't as skilled nor fast as pre-exile Ali, and couldn't run circles around his opponents like Ali. He was often forced to fight in the trenches, and dig down deep. For someone with supposedly an impenetrable jab, an awful lot of opponents in his prime got passed it, to have their moments, such as Berbick (who despite winning maybe two rounds on the official cards got past Holmes Jab quite a bit, just not quite enough to win many rounds), Weaver (despite laughable claims that Holmes chose to trade with Weaver, making his life hell, and coming within a razor inch close to losing), Shavers (who perhaps won maybe two rounds, but had Holmes down in a bad way, and hurt him on other occasions which are otherwise forgotten for whatever reason), as well as Norton (enough said).

Holmes jab also, simply wasn't as versatile as the likes of Ali, nor Liston. Most importantly unlike the mentioned two, he was unable to change the direction of the jab after throwing it, which would hurt him A LOT vs a swarmer. He also dropped his glove after throwing the jab, which would invite a lot of opportunities for Marciano imo.

His defense at times was very ordinary especially the Weaver bout. He also got hit with the left hook quite a bit, for someone supposedly immune to it in the mentioned bout, as well as the bout with Berbick.

So I think in an 80s environment, Rocky would lose around the 9th, a bloody, battered mess hopelessly behind on points. But in Marciano's era, his durability, resolve, and endurance get him through and he knocks Holmes out around 13 in a come from behind KO.

Fwiw, though I think Dempsey is the superior H2H fighter, I think he loses to any version of Holmes. He didn't have Marciano's work-rate, and insane stamina, and unlike Rocky imo would tire before Holmes.

 

Think Holmes was as skilled as Ali, just not nearly as fast.

 

No one said we have the "template" for beating Rocky.

We're just asking if you think any boxers may be favored over Rocky in a h2h discussion due to the clash of styles/size difference/x factors/bad habits/etc.

 

This is actually a good argument. Berbick was pretty mediocre and didn't have any outstanding qualities other than his determination and good conditioning. If he could get past the jab several times, Rocky might be able to. I'm still not sure Rocky beats Holmes, but I agree this is probably closer than some people will admit and Holmes' jab can get overrated.

There's a good chance Holmes vs Rocky looks similar to Chavez in his fights with Taylor/Whitaker with Rocky going through hell eating many shots, but finally manages to turn things around late with barely any time left in the 14th or 15th.

 

A 19-8 Weaver, and Renaldo Snipes would beg to differ.

If he really was as skilled as Ali, he wouldn’t have went life and death with the aforementioned two. He also would’ve never been caught by Shavers in the first place.

Theirs a reason you’ll never find any Ali-Williams, Ali-London, dominations from Holmes. He simply didn’t have Ali’s skills, and footwork, to run circles around his opponents and as I said had to resort to slugging it out and wearing his man out because he had no other choice.

 

Sure, many.

 

I am not saying anything of the kind.

I am just saying that if you haven't seen a fighter beaten, you never sure exactly what it would take, or how it would unfold.

 

You can say that about literally any hypothetical h2h opponent a boxer never faced in their career. You can't be 100% certain how that would unfold even if it's a legendary ATG and a guy who had a record of 1-6-39. He's saying you're basically giving a cop out answer.