Is Tyson Fury Still A H2H Goat ?

"An" advantage. I can list advantages (plural) prime Ali, Vitali, Bowe, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, even Jimmy Young would have against Fury. Fury himself already admitted he struggles against small mobile guys if we wanna look at other things like statements. H2H is overrated when the record doesn't reflect it. Simple.

It takes a long, goofy game of connect the dots to put Fury on that pedestal

 

Out of curiosity do you favor Usyk over Fury?

 

Yes. Fury will look slow and uncoordinated trying to box a quicker guy with higher workrate despite size difference. He will try and walk Usyk down, only to realize the gap in foot speed as well. Both will struggle, but at this point, yeah I got Usyk.

Unless he gets robbed

 

Yep my view exactly

 

I wrote this in german and since i dont want to write it in english again, i gonna use a translator. So pls dont take too much notice about the grammer:

Strenghts of Tyson Luke Fury:

For a man of his physique (height and weight as a package), he is actually extremely fast.

There has never been a guy so big and heavy who could move his whole body so well and fast.

It's not just his punches that are fast, it's also the way he can turn his upper body etc.. For 120#x kg and about 2.03 m tall, he's also faster on his feet than anyone else in this format.

Guys who have his physique normally move more like Timo Hoffmann, David Price and Mariusz Wach. I would even say that he's more flexible in the upper body than the 2.01/113kg Vitali was, because he always laid backwards for the most part (Vitali would never be able to do something like Fury did against Schwarz).

He has an all time recover ability and a very big heart.


Weaknesses of Tyson Luke Fury (ignored by his fanboys):

He's still clumsy and awkward beyond belief. The fact that he hit himself with the uppercut back then only underlines this, even when he boxed against Cunningham. You could see in a scene from the 7th round against Ngannou, when he stormed forward, landed 2-3 punches and then got a left from Ngannou, how clumsy that looked.

His punches are just not technically good. Sure this swinging around and pitch-patting (where the gloves wobble and Wilder fans see evidence of tampering) is good, but his so-called delivery system is mediocre to bad, and always has been.

He has huge problems hitting his opponents really FLUSH, so that the full power of the punch is transmitted. Wilder was ready to go from the 3rd round on in the second fight. Any good puncher would have finished him in the 4th or 5th at the latest, but he couldn't do it because his offense and body mechanics (clumsiness) weren't good enough.


Conclusion (against Usyk):

If you look at the categories of speed, timing, ballance and footwork, Usyk is clearly superior in all areas, especially in ballance, punch delivery and footwork. He moves behind Fury before he even realizes that he is behind him. And Fury would certainly look like a fool in some situations in a fight, precisely because he is clumsy and his ballance in particular will never be able to keep up with the rabbit Usyk.

 

I think you got your numbers mixed up.

 

"He's still clumsy and awkward beyond belief."

Emanuel Steward claimed that Fury had "unbelievable co-ordination", in the context of being "very talented for a big guy":

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"Wilder was ready to go from the 3rd round on in the second fight. Any good puncher would have finished him in the 4th or 5th at the latest"

Wilder has very good powers of recovery, which is one reason why he was never upset by a wide underdog like other champs have been. You can see it in the Ortiz fight, where Wilder takes numerous flush bombs from a big puncher. Haye and Bellew have talked about this:

"Wilder has no fear of taking a punch. He is wild, he is very powerful, very dangerous and very fast.” - Tony Bellew, 2017/2018

“One thing also no-one really mentions is Deontay Wilder’s punch resistance. He can take a shot. I was giving him some digs; I’ve buzzed him a bit and he’s been back wanting more. Not only is it a good chin, his recovery power is great, most people you hit them with one shot their legs go a little bit and they’re not quite the same. He’s straight back on it.” - David Haye, 2020

Fury's gameplan in Wilder 2 was to smother Wilder after he'd hurt him in order to stifle Wilder's offense. While it took Fury a few more rounds to get rid of Wilder, he drained Wilder to the point of exhaustion and minimised the risk of Wilder catching him with a big right hand (I don't think Wilder landed any at all after the 2nd round).

 

1. Which boxer in history has anything resembling Ngannou's collection of attributes? His combination of size, strength, power and durability is probably unprecedented and there was no relevant footage of him to study. He also has 14-15 years striking experience (boxing and MMA, being a puncher first and foremost throughout his career).

Until we see the 272 lbs MMA hulk in with other heavyweights it's difficult to accurately assess his abilities and it's impossible to compare him with fighters from 80 years ago or whatever. Given what I've seen I wouldn't be surprised at all if he KO'd Joshua and Wilder.

2. There's nothing disgraceful about getting off the deck to win on your worst night. Fury's condition was disgraceful but his performance certainly wasn't. Spitting out your mouthpiece, sagging on the ropes and waiting to be waved off is disgraceful.

 

Povetkin too. I think @dinovelvet had a gif/link.

 

Am I in a court room? This isn't a yes or no game.

I will say that "fighter A" could potentially have skills that "fighter B" could utilise to their own advantage and vice versa, whether they're tall, short, fat, lean, bantamweight or heavyweight.

As I've previously stated though, saying something like "fighter A" wouldn't have beaten "fighter B" if "fighter A" wasn't so tall is a bonkers thought process. The height of "fighter A" is an intrinsic truth and can't be changed, contrarian thinking to this intrinsic truth diminishes "fighter A's" achievements and has no basis in reality, which can lead to a warped perspective of reality for the individual buying in to this type of thinking.

 

No it's not a court room. The point of a yes or no question is so they we can clearly understand each other's positions instead of wasting time squabbling.

That isn't what I was arguing. I didn't say Fury would lose to x specific fighter if he were shorter. I said he'd be much worse if he couldn't rely on his size. He relies heavily on his size to win.

Which is why I brought up other tall fighters such as Lewis, Bugner, etc who don't simply count on being taller as their plan B when in trouble. They have intangible skills that would still be effective even if they were smaller. If you disagree, that's fine, but nothing I said was ridiculous or illogical. Fury heavily relies on his size in some fights and that is a fact. Putting it a different way: he is not as good of a fighter as he could be if he didn't rely on his size 70% of the time.

A truly skilled big man sees his height/reach/size etc as more tools he can use and not as the primary means of winning. Just like how a good power puncher realizes his power is simply one asset or a good fast fighter realizing his speed is just one tool. Fighters who failed to realize that would be Wilder for power or Amir Khan for speed. They never reached their full potential as a result.

 

Let me put it to you this way.

Mike Tyson would never had won all of those fights and had an awesome peek-a-boo style if he wasn't 5'10 and weighed 220 pounds and packed a wild punch because he's so compact. See, I'm an idiot for stating that.

Why? Because Mike Tyson is always going to be 5'10 and roughly the same weight.

What you said was Tyson Fury wouldn't have had as much success as he has because he's so tall.

******ed, isn't it?

 

Fury loses his size advantage though against guys like Bakole, Makhmudov, Zhang, Joyce, Jalolov, etc. When assessing how he would do against them it might be good to keep that in mind. In Ngannou he was up against a physically stronger opponent he couldn't outmuscle.

 

"In Ngannou he was up against a physically stronger opponent he couldn't outmuscle"

That's the story of the fight, you're one of the few that are actually making a point of that.