Ode to Floyd Patterson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Dec 19, 2023.


  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He defended his title against an amateur … and had to get off the canvas to win.

    If you were Cus you’d have tried to keep him away from Sonny too. For his own safety.
     
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  2. newurban99

    newurban99 Active Member Full Member

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    Here's my defense of Floyd to the accusation he avoided Liston for years. Liston wasn't ranked until 1958 and wasn't near the top of the ratings until 1959. Johansson was the #1 contender in the first half of '59, and that June he won the title from Patterson. The following year Patterson regained the title with a sensational knockout of the favored Ingo. The public, while it had begun clamoring for a Patterson-Liston showdown, remained interested in a rubber match between the American and the Swede. That takes us through 1961. In those days the US tax rate on the top bracket was as high as 90 percent minus deductions. It didn't pay for the heavyweight champ to take more than one big fight a year. When Patterson fought Tom McNeely in late '61, that was a tuneup and a way to whet the public's appetite for a defense against Sonny in '62. As proof, the McNeeley card was scheduled the same night as Liston-Westphal, and the two bouts were broadcast as a twin-bill to movie theaters. By then Patterson had begun distancing himself from his manager Cus D'Amato who feared and opposed meeting Liston. With Cus sidelined, Patterson signed to fight Liston. I would argue that Floyd's avoidance of Sonny was largely a result of circumstances. The time wasn't right until 1962.
     
  3. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    From Archie Moore onwards Patterson was the heavier man 8 times and the lighter man 25 times.

    He had 1lb on Cooper, 0.5lbs and 1lbs respectively on Quarry in their 2 fights. The other 5 times he was the heavier man were against non contenders. Every other contender he fought outweighed him.

    Off the top of my head, other than Archie Moore, who he was roughly equal in height with, he was the shorter man against every HW contender he fought.

    He was a small HW in a growing division during the 60's.
     
  4. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He turned pro in 52, fought Moore 4 years later and Liston 2 11 years later.

    If he had turned pro 10 years earlier, then that same time period after would have spanned the very end of Louis's reign up towards Marciano's.

    He may have lost to the Louis that fought Walcott and may have lost to Rocky, but I doubt either blows him away in the 1st round twice in fights that were such desperate mismatches and suspect he would be regarded more highly than he actually is, as a consequence.
     
  5. JohnKasarinlan

    JohnKasarinlan New Member Full Member

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    I feel he should have stayed at Light Heavyweight but D'amato wants his Heavyweight champ. The chance of Floyd becoming ATG or at least a great resume at LHW is far, far higher in my opinion. Defintiely better than Torres.
     
  6. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Floyd vs Sonny is a strange case. Despite the criticism of Patterson as champ and Liston virtually cleaning out the division and the accusations of ducking, many pre-fight predictions in the trade, greatly sided with Floyd - which either states he was being underrated in some quarters at the time- or people just have a natural reluctance to go against the champion. For example, in Boxing Illustrated's pre-fight issue- of the 12 predictions only Willie Pep and Barney Ross pick Sonny to win.
     
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  7. Kid Bacon

    Kid Bacon All-Time-Fat Full Member

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    Fair enough,
    But Liston was just the most well known case of Patterson's ducking a dangerous challenger.

    During his reign Patterson also ducked Machen, Valdes, Foley, Wlilliams, etc.
    Patterson actually could have been the World Champion of Dodgeball.
     
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  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Cus was definitely trying to protect him from Liston, but most of the rest are folklore without much substance.

    He should have defended against Machen or Folley in '58, but the decision to defend against Harris probably had to do with the money he brought as a white contender. At the time, Machen and Folley weren't seen as clearly better.

    For his very next fight Patterson tried to sign with the conquerer of Folley, namely Cooper, and did sign with the conquerer of Machen - Ingo.

    Valdez and Williams were barely in the top 10 at this time and Liston wouldn't emerge as the main contender until after Floyd had lost his title.

    And I also think that the whole Rademacher thing has been blown out of proportion. He fought him only three weeks after defending against his mandatory, as a gimme. Would anyone complain much if Fury had fought Ngannou three weeks after Usyk? Instead it was the only fight he had this year!

    To give a bit of perspective.
     
  9. Turnip mk3

    Turnip mk3 Active Member Full Member

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    For a smaller fast HW he could hit hard . He flattered Cooper with one punch. Not many managed that .
     
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  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Have you actually looked at where Williams and Valdes were in the rankings? They were just fringe contenders during Patterson's first reign.

    Valdes belonged more to the early 50's contenders, in the late 50's he was more comparable to the some of the 80's alphabet guys that could pop up in the rankings still in the early 90's. If Floyd had faced him it would have seen as going after pretty much a has been.

    Liston had also just started to sniff at the rankings when Floyd signed with Ingo.

    He should have faced one of Folley and Machen in '58, that's true. But Patterson went after the guys that beat them, so hard to believe he was that terrified of them.
     
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