Fury and Wilder

What if the trilogy took a lot out of both guys to the point they are not the same anymore?
Because I think that’s a real possibility.

Also people bash Fury now because Wilder lost to Parker. Fury helped Parker prepare. Apparently Fury was even sparring with Parker but somehow this elevated Usyk and not Fury?!

Usyk didn’t do **** but have a corrupt title defense this year.

 

Only casuals ever rated wilder. To anyone who knows boxing it was obvious he was a padded record bum. Never deserved to be talked about in the top 5 conversation.

Fury was elite, the peter fury version that beat klitschko was just unreal considering his size, such a talent.

I think the version that sugar Hill created was exactly what was needed to beat wilder but its made him into a version that's more easily beatable by others. He's old now and passed his best and hes beatable by a handfull of guys in the divison. That said it's a bit unfair to say he Is overated, everyone declines and the very best version of fury was capable of being in the ring with anyone from any era

 

Consider that the narrative a few years ago was that fury is an unbeatable beast because he's 6'9 19 stone beast that moved well and that this new era of heavyweight where it was said anyone below 6'5 couldn't become a champ, yes he's overrated to high hell

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they were exposed. That seems too extreme for two former or current champions.

However, and I said this on one of the other threads, they have suffered reputitional damage and really it's their own faults.

The truth is that as both of their defining fights came against each other (barring Fury/Klitschko), their reputations are inextricably linked and dependent on one another. After Wilder was so thoroughly dominated by Parker, and Fury struggled badly (and arguably lost) to Ngannou, the thinness of their resumes casts a shadow over their legacies.

All of a sudden, Fury being dropped by Cunningham starts to look bad again. Fury's life and death struggle with Wallin starts to look bad (after Joshua thrashed him) . His choice of Schwarz and an unknown Wallin post-Wilder 1 looks like a lack of confidence. His arrogance of choosing Whyte and an ancient Chisora for fights NOBODY wanted post Wilder 3 looks like what it was - greed. And the Ngannou option too - going for high reward/low risk. It's not a good look. I thought Fury was a nailed on ATG, and his bravery for facing Wilder when he did and doing what he did was the stuff of legends. But again, that is the only redeeming factor in his post-Klitschko resume - and now that looks...severely diminished.

Likewise Wilder. His WBC reign was absurdly stage managed by the WBC and PBC. And Fury was a cherry pick gone wrong. Clever management, but after his thrashing by Parker it starts to really look like smoke and mirrors. And again, I loved Wilder as a fighter. I wanted to see him face the best and genuinely thought he would find a way to win despite his limitations. But we NEVER got those fights. And so now we start to wonder why...and it does seem like he was manufactured. Had he fought Ruiz and beaten him, had he fought and beat Whyte even, or Joyce - or even Martin we wouldn't be saying this as we would have a much better yardstick of his true level. But he managed to be a champ and not fight these fights.

I don't mean to hate on these guys. I've been a fan of them. But it's really hard for them to not be diminished when their resumes are so dependent on each other.

The Usyk fight will answer all questions at least. But ATM the jury is out - and it's their own fault ultimately.

 

Ah yes because 38 year old Wilder who hasn't fought in 2 years and is pretty much done with boxing bar a big payday getting battered by former champion Parker (31) at the end of his career is him getting exposed.

facepalm

I guess when fighters reach the end of their careers and start losing or having tough fights with perceived lesser opposition they are getting exposed now and were never any good like these guys haven't got 10 years of history behind them and it all gets wiped out from a single fight.

What a lame opinion.

In the same way AJ getting chinned off by Ruiz Jr & Usyk, now he's suddenly back better than ever after stopping Otto Wallin. Like oh yeah everything has been righted judging and judging poorly from a single fight.

 

Not sure if this is aimed at me or not...but anyway, leave your biases and favouritism to one side - as I have here - and you will surely recognize that the only way to have an unquestionable legacy is by fighting the best available opposition - there's no doubting a resume full of top opponents. Otherwise, as I have highlighted, if you base your reputations on primarily one rival - you will both rise and fall together.

Thankfully, we have the Usyk vs Fury fight on deck which will help clarify things immensely. But until then, the jury is out in my opinion.

 

That's great and all but would you agree that both Fury & Usyk are on the downward slope tail end of their careers?

Sadly in boxing business comes before competition which is why they aren't fighting best opponent after best opponent. There is a reason why the "top dogs" have carefully vetted opponents at HW for their "stay busy" fights. You can't mess around even with "lesser" opponents at this weight. Fury was very and I mean very close to fighting Agit Kabayel but didn't in favour for someone he knows he can beat and is just as if not more marketable. Same for AJ fighting Wallin.

 

I don't know really. I think it's a definite possibility though, for sure. It's really hard to measure when Fury is fighting people like Chisora, Whyte, and Ngannou (fights that stylistically really favor him on paper). And Usyk...his style is so athletic that it will be hard to maintain too deep into his 30's...but he's looked good. The Dubois win was always a good scalp I thought.

Again - and this goes further to burnish my original point - we will know WAY more after they fight each other! That's the beauty of boxing - it's the theatre of truth. But you gotta fight the fights!

 

Ok how about looking at them both physically from a physiological standpoint. Can you see the markers of age on them?

Then account that Fury has had elbow operations & Usyk shoulder operations

Usyk is 37 in January and has stated clearly he wants to retire but the challenge of Fury will keep him in the game. Fury has stated over a year ago that he knows FULLY in heart, mind and body that he needs to retire but he's mentally ill and can't.

That's explicit evidence right there.

 

I don't know. We won't know till we see them in the ring. Some people have injuries and come back stronger. Some people have things that you would assume hinders them and never seems to even bother them.

I think if anything has taken a toll on Fury it would be his third fight with Wilder. Usyk, I think looks good - he defeated a very good Dubois last time out - but people tried to downplay that by saying Dubois was a no hoper. I personally have always rated Dubois.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they are past their peak - but I don't see any huge red flags or signposts in them that suggests this to be an issue. Fury's main enemy appears to be his discipline more than anything.

 

We will see every ounce of greatness, weakness and strength from Fury & Usyk for 4/6 rounds

Then father time is going to fill that ring with water and they both will start to drown in each others wakes.

 

fury is as overrated as wilder was , prob even more . 40 year old Klitchko is his best win and he did it while juiced to gills in absolutely the worst title fight , other than that he has wilder who is a joke , but still managed to floor him 4 times.

 

We shall see. The main thing is that it is happening. So we will know. should be a great fight!