What do you think of John McGlothlin view on Joe Louis?

You are full of more **** than a Christmas Goose. There is no proof Dermpsey lied about supporting his famiiy, and Maxine was quite bitter about Dempsey dumping her , which if you actually knew anything about boxing you would know. She would have said anything to get even. As far as World War II, taking a landing craft in under fire is no joke, and it is a lot more than Louis did, running around telling black men to enlist in a mlitary that left them in segragated units with subpar equipment. The closest Louis came to hearing a shot heard in anger, oh wait, he didn't.

 

Under fire, my ass. Spin some more yarns about the slacker who was basically a pimp at that time he was avoiding his duty in WW1.

 

Another armchair warrior babbling about what he knows NOTHING about. No decent person who knows anything about boxing, (which leaves you out) calls Dempsey names on the sole basis of his bitter ex wife's claims. And if you had actually served, you would know how dangerous landing craft duty was in WW2. Na, you prefer to idolize Louis, a guy who only enlisted because he was assured he wouldn't have to fight while he toured wiht a segregated PR unit claiming the military was fair.

 

Dude, I've been reading about Dempsey longer than you've probably been alive.

He was a simple dude who went by his instincts, a bruiser, a heavy, a pimp, a bad dude in his early days. Honestly, I don't hold it against him that he avoided the war. He was living street level not by higher ideals. And he definitely evolved and became an honest, good man later in life.

And if you think he went into live fire on Okinawa, you not only don't know **** about Dempsey, you don't know **** about the Pacific Theater in 1945.

 

Dude, I doubt you have read more about anytihng than I have, except how to lie.

There is absolutely no proof Dempsey ever pimped anything. None. Oh yeah, you depend on the various rants of his ex wife. You never served, you never saw a shot fired in anger, and you have not a clue about the landing craft at Okinawa not facing live fire. You know less about the mlitary and WW2 than you do about boxing, and that goes a ways into ignorance.

And you still revere Louis, who made a deal to avoid combat, while urging other black men to enlist and enter it.

 

John Henry Lewis had beaten Elmer Ray six months before the Louis fight. He beat Al Gainer and Jimmy Adamick leading up to the Louis fight. A year before fighting Louis he beat Al Ettore.

A sick, half blind man would have not gone through neither Ray or Ettore yet Louis gets no credit for beating him in a single round.

Louis did not duck anybody. He fought top contenders. When black men became top contenders Lewis fought them.

The only one to break the top 5 before the war was Franklin, and then he got promptly knocked out by Bob Pastor. He didn't even hold his ranking for 2 months.
I guess should've given him a fight instead of top contenders Lou Nova and Billy Conn right?

Then there the war years in which Louis couldn't fight.
He then comes back and gives Conn the long awaited rematch and knocks him out.
He then faces the top contender Tami Maurielo which he knocks in a single round.

Then he fights Walcott who was the top contender, he wins a close controversial decision and rematches him, again, the top contender, and knocks him out this time and retires.

What the record shows is that when a black man became number 1, Louis matched him. Twice.

"Louis was vulnerable to movers"

Louis fought movers 8 times. He went 8-0 against them, 6 of which being knockouts.

The Walcott fights came when Louis returned from the war and had lost his speed. Walcott was a retirement fight for a reason.

Conn was the only mover to really trouble Louis in his prime and that was primarily because of Conn's infighting. Conn had success and won rounds when he was sticking to Louis, pushing him off balance and fighting on the inside.
Billy tried a more stick and move approach in the second fight and got dominated.

Lee Ramage was doing very well against a 21 year old green Louis before he got knocked down 4 times and his corner stopped the fight in the 8th.

Then they rematched and Louis took him out in 2.

Pastor was outboxed to lose a wide decision in his first fight against Joe and then got knocked down a whooping 5 times in the rematch.

Strange how Louis is the one who had trouble with movers when he dealt with them better than Liston, Foreman or Ali did.

 

Yawn.

 

John McFraudlin back at it again. Seems like he really has something against Louis. He thinks picking on someone even less credible than him makes him credible. Fyi, John picks on Bob Garrett who is a literal fraud and makes bs statements. John exposed him but John ain't no better. John sucks up to Ali and hates on Joe. I don't see any ranked black heavyweight that Louis didn't fight. Simply put, most of the ranked contenders were not black. John is just trying to defame Louis. Don't listen to any crap what he says.

 

Yup and Muhammad Ali was a mover too on top of that.

 

I wouldn't say overrated. Look at his records and the opponents he beat.

 

We keep enough of them around to ensure balance.

 

Joe Louis is not #2 on my all time Heavyweight list either. I have him at #1.

 

I think his arguments read like an all time collection of critics with limited knowledge of the facts , that they are poorly researched and basically jibberish ...

 

Have you heard of Obie Walker? Many other people claimed Louis "ducked" him too and that critics back then predicted he would knockout Louis which is BS. John favors Ali so much to the point he discredits Louis for what he's done in the ring. Before he started bringing down Louis, he praised him as a boxer and ranked him as #2 right behind Ali and eventually discrediting him. It's disgusting how John lets his bias gets the best of him.

 

John McGlothlin strikes again

Four facts are beyond dispute:

• Joe Louis did not face one single Black heavyweight for 13 years
• Joe Louis did not face a Black heavyweight contender for 10 years and six months of his 11 year title reign, until he finally faced one his last six months as champion
• Joe Louis or his team ducked any heavyweight deemed a genuine threat to him while he was champion
• Joe Louis bribed his way to a title shot, denying the rightful #1 contender - who had knocked Louis out - his shot at the title
• Muhammad Ali faced more contenders, beat more contenders, ducked no one, and never bribed his way to a title shot

There is no way that Louis is a greater champion than Ali…

Joe Louis bought a title shot and the title

In 1936, the National Boxing Association (“NBA”), the only sanctioning body then active world wide, ordered world champion JJ Braddock to defend against #1 mandatory contender Max Schmeling, who had just beaten Joe Louis to a pulp, and taken his status as #1 contender.

But Schmeling never got his title shot - the man he beat up, and his, (Joe Louis’s) team bought his title shot, paying and bribing Braddock.

The NBA then let it go under incredible political pressure.

Despite only being #2 contender, and despite having been beaten to a pulp by the #1 contender, Louis got the mandatory 1937 title shot, and the title, by buying it

How did Joe buy it? His promoter, Mike Jacobs, paid Braddock to fight Louis instead of Schmeling. Jacobs guaranteed Braddock a purse of $320,000, more than he had earned all together over 14 years in his entire career, and threw in ten percent of the promoter's net profits from promoting Louis over the next10 years!

Yep, for every single fight from then on, but the last two, in Joe’s first career, 24 of them, Braddock collected 10% of the profits of the promotion!

AND, any other activities Joe participated in that generated promotional profits? Braddock got 10% of that too!

So Schmeling’s contract with Braddock was ignored, and Louis’s team bought a title shot with Braddock, despite Louis’s:

• not being #1 contender
• having lost to the #1 contender, Schmeling
• having been beat to a pulp and knocked out by Schmeling
• the only sanctioning body having ordered Braddock to defend against Schmeling or be stripped of the title, and
• Schmeling having a signed contract to fight for the title.

Braddock originally would not abrogate his contract to fight Schmeling, but Louis’s team, in addition to a huge (for the time) purse of $320,000, ($6,707,466.67 today, more money than Braddock had made not just in his career, but in his entire life to that point!) gave him 10% of the profits from Louis’s title fights for the next ten years as a sweetner!

Monte Cox sums it up best:

“[Schmeling] Likely would have beaten Braddock and became first man to regain [the heavyweight] title if given opportunity.”


No more blatant example of selling the title in boxing history than this one.

Joe had only fought ONE Black heavyweight in his first career till he faced a second, Joe Walcott, 13 1/2 years later

Joe Louis fought Black Heavyweight Willie Davis in July of 1934. That was the last Black Heavyweight Joe Louis faced for 13 years…

Of the 8 Black fighters Louis faced:

• one was Davis, a Black heavyweight, in 1934
• one was a Black but blind light heavyweight in 1939 Louis faced only to give him a payday before retirement
• one was Black heavyweight Walcott in 1947, and
• Louis faced the other 5 in his second career, over 12 months, when he had no control over his booking.

When Joe and his managers were doing the booking, Joe faced no Black heavyweights for 13 years. When the IRS was doing his booking, he faced 5 Black opponents 7 times, in a matter of months.

During the time Louis did not fight Black heavyweights, at least 17 were ranked, here are 14 Ring ranked for at least a year:

• 1936 Jack Trammell (50-12-2) ranked #5 when Joe was #2
• 1936 Leroy Haynes, ranked #7 in 1936
• 1937, Joe was champion, Roscoe Toles was ranked #9
• 1938 Roscoe Toles was #8
• 1939 Roscoe Toles was #9
• 1940 Buddy Walker was #5
• 1940 Otis Thomas was #9
• 1940 Lem Franklin was #10
• 1941 Lem Franklin was #2
• 1941 Turkey Thompson was #6
• 1941 Roscoe Toles was #10
• 1942 Jimmy Bivens was #1
• 1942 Turkey Thompson was #3
• 1942 Roscoe Toles was #4
• 1942 Harry Bobo was #5
• 1942 Big Boy Brown was #6
• 1942 Lou Brooks was #8
• 1943 Jimmy Bivens was #1
• 1943 Lee Q Murray was #3
• 1943 Curtis Shepherd was #4
• 1943 Turkey Thompson #8
• 1944 Curtis Shepherd was #4
• 1944 Lee Q Murray was #6
• 1944 Elmer Ray was #8
• 1944 Al Hart was #9
• 1945 Jimmy Bivens was #3
• 1945 Elmer Ray was #4
• 1945 JJ Walcott #9
• 1946 Elmer Ray was #2
• 1946 JJ Walcott was #3
• 1946 Lee Q Murray was #5
• 1946 Curtis Shepherd was #6,

The fighters listed above were ranked at least ONE YEAR or more at that top ten ranking.

Other Black heavyweights, like:

• Willie Reddish
• Alberto Santiago Lovell
• Tommy Martin

were not ranked a year, but were ranked at the time Louis was choosing unranked white fighters over ranked Black heavyweights…

The sole fight against a Black fighter over 13 years - against a man blind in one eye, and a light heavyweight to boot!

The only Black fighter Joe Louis fought during the 13 years between 1934 and 1947, was not a heavyweight of course, no.

Instead of a ranked Black contender, Louis chose to fight Light heavyweight champion John Henry Lewis, who was a close personal friend of Joe Louis, and was legally blind in one eye. Joe gave the fight to Lewis in order to send him to retirement with a big payday. (Louis was his last fight, and biggest payday, and Lewis was unranked at heavyweight)

The IRS booking in Louis’s second career really revealed the extent of Louis’s ducking Black heavyweights
When some argue money was the reason Louis faced no Black opponents for over a decade, the IRS doing the booking in his second career solely on the basis of money proves that a lie:

• For 13 years Louis fought no Black heavyweights with his team doing the booking
• Louis fought one Black heavyweight at the end of his reign, one in his entire first career from 1934 to 1948.
• In his 14 years and 59 fights in his first career, Louis fought ONE black heavyweight
• In 52 opponents Louis and his team picked, ONE was a black heavyweight
• When Louis and his managers picked heavyweight opponents, less than 2% were Black
• When the IRS picked Louis’s heavyweight opponents, 70% were Black
• 7 of the 10 fights the IRS booked were against the highest grossing opponent - a Black heavyweight
• Unlike Louis’s team, who booked on risk, the IRS booked on who paid the most money for the fighter’s purses

The simple numbers, and facts, are a stunning stain on Louis’s record.

Louis made 14 title defenses up to his joke of a defense against low ranked Abe Simon. 6 to #1 contenders - who were the other 8 made against?

In at least 6 of the 8 title defenses, he fought unranked white opponents over ranked black contenders, including:

• unranked white Gus Dorazio instead of Black #2 Lem Franklin, #6 Turkey Thompson, or #10 Roscoe Toles
• unranked white Tony Musto instead of Black #2 Lem Franklin, #6 Turkey Thompson, or #10 Roscoe Toles
• unranked white Harry Thomas instead of Black #7 Roscoe Toles
• unranked at heavyweight and blind light heavyweight John Lewis instead of Black #4 ranked heavyweight Willie Reddish or #5 Black heavyweight Roscoe Toles
• unranked white Jack Roper instead of Black #9 ranked Roscoe Toles
• unranked white Al McCoy instead of Black heavyweights #5 Buddy Walker or #10 Tommy Martin

The sad truth is, if Ali, Mike Tyson, Sonny Liston or George Foreman, had been a contender during Joe Louis’s time at the top - even the #1 contender - Joe would have ducked them.

From 1934 to mid 1947 Louis did not face one Black heavyweight, while repeatedly bypassing them for unranked or lesser ranked white fighters. Only in the last six months of his title reign did he finally fight a Black heavyweight…

The only Black fighter of note Joe fought during that 13 years was light heavyweight champion John Henry Lewis, (unranked at heavyweight) who was a close personal friend of Joe Louis, who was completely blind in one eye and who Joe gave the fight to in order to send him to retirement with a big payday.

https://www.quora.com/Do-you-believ...ing-his-12-year-reign-and-impact-on-the-sport