Clinching needs to be penalized harder to make it fair for shorter fighters

To be fair we see how cluesless Fury was in the Ngannou fight, even though the refs allow him to cheat. But he couldn't bully Ngannou and he lost that fight, and needed to be as dirty as possible. He was also given a full 20 seconds for the KD.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-4L8uy3rDik[/url]
There was also a KD in the 7th round that was a clear one, and not given.

And also that octupus Okolie should have been DQ in his last fight. The guy was just hugging after hugging after hugging. He should have been DQ like at least 10 times.

 

That fight is coming in 6 days, prepare the book of excuses.

 

Honestly couldn't care less about the outcome but I'm excited for the fight. Far more excited than Fury Nnganou. Because I know and you konw that Fury ain't a bodybuilding bum so Francis is clearly taking AJ's head clean off.

 

One of the main reasons why Fury is so hard to beat.

 

Ali in the 70s was also a massive clinching cheat.

 

Sort of, but it's not quite the same level of cheating.

The way Ali clinched allowed fighters to work. He'd hold their heads around the neck which still gave them the space and leverage to throw body shots or uppercuts on the inside. Wlad in comparison completely hugged his opponents in a tight bearhug that nullified any offensive options or used his height and weight to push down on a fighter's back. Fury does the same but not as effectively. Same with Pulev and a couple other heavyweights of recent times using Wlad's blueprint.

The way these fighters "clinch" is more like standing grappling than clinching and probably needs its own word. A clinch should still allow your opponent some limited mobility and offensive options, or at least the ability to fight out of it. When you're literally bearhugging your opponent and pinning their arms to their sides, or trying to push their heads down to the floor by jumping on top of them you're in a completely different ballpark of rule-flouting.

 

Which is exactly why those Fury tactics failed against Ngannou. You can't standing grapple the 270 lbs MMA fighter, which is why he looked so foolish when he tried.

Unfortunately, that may work against the 220 lbs Ukrainian.

 

How can you fight out of a Wlad-style huggy bear clinch though? When an opponent is taller than you, and possessed of a high degree of physical strength devoted solely at completely nullifying any movement, the only way to really counter that is by cheating yourself. As much as I hate Haye, he had the right idea dropping to his knees every time Wlad clinched him. The alternative was to be like Povetkin and have Wlad wear out his legs with the constant pushing down on his back. Eddie Chambers also attempted to lift and throw Wlad, but that's obviously massively physically draining and not something you can keep up for long. It might work as an early deterrent, but if the opponent is determined to keep clinching you it soon becomes unviable and even counter-productive.

Maybe driving your head into the clincher, or attempting to rabbit punch them (really the only punch you can actually throw in that situation), or attempting to low blow them might work, although the way refs are these days you'll be the one penalised and likely DQed in that instance, not the clincher. Occasional throws with the intent to injure the opponent on landing might also work but would need some grappling training, but shouldn't really be necessary in a primarily striking sport if the rules are being enforced properly. And if those are the only solutions then why have any rules at all?

Ultimately the only practical solution is that such egregious abuses of the clinch need to be clamped down on and penalised. Unfortunately it's become normalised in the culture, and would probably be difficult to change. Maybe if Usyk beats Fury fighters will begin to focus on cleaner tactics and in-fighting can become more of a viable discipline again. Let's hope so.

 

Look at this crap. How are you supposed to fight out of this?

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I agree though that shorter fighters should try to fight out of clinches more, but that requires the refs not to break the action any time a clinch is initiated. But there's no way of doing anything legal in the above scenario.

 

It generally requires a lot of physical strength and being as big or bigger than the clincher though. If you're a smaller and lighter fighter there's very little you can do. It's my one concern in the Usyk Fury fight because I know Fury is going to be cheating his nuts off and trying to manhandle Usyk any chance he gets, and the way things are being set up the ref's probably going to let him get away with it. Hopefully Usyk is prepared and has something to bring that will deter that stuff early.

 

When you base your whole game around a certain illegal tactic and that tactic is suddenly taken away it can throw your whole game into a shambles, because one of the key struts has been removed. Even a world class boxer like Wlad struggled against a lower level guy like Jennings because the American ref chose to warn and later penalise Wlad for excessive holding, and Wlad has gotten so used to having things his own way in Germany that his rhythm was broken and he wasn't able to switch back to a cleaner boxer-centric mindset mid fight, which allowed Jennings little windows of opportunity to attack while Wlad was actively trying to hold back from his almost instinctive desire to clinch and mentally expending effort not to do so for fear of getting further penalised. Had the fight been in Germany it would have been a regular Wlad shutout or even late TKO from all the exhausting clinching Jennings would have had to endure. And had the fight been against a Wlad from the pre-Steward days it would have been an early and clean KO for Wlad against a far inferior opponent.

 

Agree. It's especially tough when the size difference is that of Fury and his opponents and guys at lower weights that play scale games. I'm unsure how you can penalize it without removing some skill and tactic from fights.

 

In a real fight, MMA or even Muay Thai you have plenty of allowed options. In Boxing not so much. In MMA/ Street Fight, and even Muay Thai, you can just throw him on the ground. In Boxing that ain't allowed. Holding is also not allowed though, but the corrupt officials allow it, if it's for the "right" guy. Also elbow someone trying to clinch or close down is a great tool. Knees as well. But you can't use them in Boxing, and that's why Holding is not allowed in Boxing, but again corruption is killing the sport.

As far as the fight out of it, how you can do that, when the referee literally scream break/stop and you need to stop. And the clincher could just grab/hold and do that for the whole fight. You have no options. That's why the rules are excessive clinching leads to point deduction and DQ, and that no holding is allowed at all. But again corruption for the right guy ....

Boxing is truly lost, and Fury - Usyk is going to determine if the sports truly will die for the honest fans, or will give them even a little hope.

When both fighters are in the ring, promotional company and their names should mean nothing. The fight needs to be 100% fair and honest, same as judge/referee being unbiased. Otherwise what is even the point of watching ?

 

Absolutely spot on imo, I don't see many calling AJ-Nganou like this but I fancy Fracis pretty heavily. I hear he's like a 3-1 underdog or something...?
I predict AJ to be outsmarted and man-handled by the veteran.
People waaay to enamoured with AJs classic European style and big punching but Ngannou is way to good to simply be tagged with a 1-2 down the pike and his head is like a rock.
AJ to find no answers to the questions he's asked and taken deep, then basically bludgeoned into submission.
Anyway, re the clinching. I think it's at a referee's discretion and it's on them to find the balance between scrappy in-fighting and blatant arm/headlocks that nullify an opponent being able to throw completely.