Why come Liston didn't get a title shot against Frazier in the late 60s

I cannot fathom Sonny Liston working as a "boxing announcer".

 

@klompton2

Whilst googling for more info on the subject, this older forum discussion (see below) popped up.

Due respect Klomp, but you’ve exercised highly malleable interpretations and weighting as and when it suits your particular argument.

Here, to accent on Ellis/Dundee’s alleged avoidance of Frazier, you frame their mention of or orchestrations for a Liston fight to be disingenuous.

You’ve also called Dundee out for BS - but you’ve also notably deferred to Dundee’s word 100% in other instances as and when it suits.

This proves that a lot of what I’ve written previously in terms of lack of even handed treatment is true - for one thing, while you suggested otherwise, this thread is also very much about Ellis and his team also (= scrutiny of their own conduct and behaviours).

Klomp: -

Quote sourced from the thread below: -

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/jimmy-ellis-vs-sonny-liston-august-1969.602259/

 

Where are you parents? Boy, this place could really do with a crèche.

 

Is this pathetic reply your best argument?
If it is then this forum is not for you, the mental hospital is the best choice then.

 

Sonny could be “chatty”...sometimes...but this advert does exemplify Sonny in one of his less talkative moods: -

This content is protected

 

The complete written works of BF2002’s wit and wisdom would be lucky to fill the back of a postage stamp.

You might want to buy yourself a donut cushion for that heavily projected, aching butt of yours.

You can now knock yourself out talking to yourself - first sign of madness, as they say.

 

Maybe try to kill klompton and me so we would not be able to speak our opinion and our sources which are valid so you and swag could spread the hype about Liston and no one could claim that it is not true.
I forgot how is that called be we call it here a good old fashion communism.

 

You'd struggle to pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel you would. What a treasure you are - about as useful as the "ueue" in queue.

 

I have zero idea what this debate is about but that last bit is brilliant.

 

You are about as useful as a grave robber in a crematorium or as useful as the number 9 on a microwawe.

 

Cheers mate!!!!

 

Cleveland Williams sux dog ballz!!!!!

 

This is inconsistent with what Ive been saying all along how?

You seem to keep making this about Ellis avoiding Frazier and continue to ignore that Liston absolutely refused the best offer to face Ellis using the IRS confiscating his money as some sort of excuse. Sorry pal but Liston turned down all offers to face Ellis, Quarry, Cleroux, Chuvalo, Mac Foster and anyone else with a pulse or that he didnt already know like the back of his hand. I realize it burns your ass and you have a hard time accepting it. Youve been twisting yourself into knots trying to convince yourself that Liston was on this fearless bum of the month march to the title before getting brutally put to sleep by his former sparring who was called “Leotis Who?” in his own hometown prior to fighting Liston. Feel free to believe your fantasy but just dont ask anyone else here who can read to do the same.

The only thing I can gather from this repost is that once again you are unhappy because you think I should be criticising Ellis ducking Frazier as equally as I have “criticized” Liston for not fighting the best fighters he was offered in a thread specifically about Liston. As I said, if you want to start an Ellis thread be my guest. Otherwise this is just an attempt at deflection. “Wait wait, dont look at what Liston was doing! Look over there at what Ellis was doing instead!” Ive criticized Ellis for this period plenty. On the contrary I have not criticized Liston and indeed stated that I understand his decisions. But what I did and will continue to do is point out the facts when people who are ignorant of them claim that Liston couldnt get fights, had everybody scared of him, and would have fought (and/or beat) X, Y, and Z during this period. The fact that you take this as “criticism” just shows that you are personally invested in the argument.

 

Okay. Well if this is true what exactly are you trying to prove here?

Also they didn't say Ellis was scared of Liston they were talking about other rising contenders for whom Liston represented a lot of risk for a lot of reward. Liston could have sought out better opponents than the competition he was fighting(which wasn't awful I actually thought it was worse before this thread) while also avoiding guys where the risk wasn't worth the reward.

Also Ellis got his belt relatively late in like 1968. He got that belt by winning the WBA tournament Liston wanted to be part of. A tournament that "Leotis who" was a part of. Documenting this story doesn't define the whole post Ali period of Listons career.

 

Reason tells me that in 1967 through 1969 there were enough people curious to see Sonny Liston fight that a promoter could put together a low-cost show in an inexpensive venue pitting him against a ham-and-egger, pay Liston a few grand and the opponent half of that and make a small profit. It didn't necessarily have to be a competitive match. If Sonny fought seven times a year and picked up a little change on the side he could get by. I visited his house in Vegas. It's a split-level house on a golf course. He still had a better lifestyle than most of us but it needed to be fed.