Has Usky just demolished the myth of the modern superheavyweight?

Be gentle, I think I’m maxed out talking about the fight just for now - kidding. Well, not really.

 

I don't agree ... the fight was razor close ... Usyk showed incredible will as it looked he was possibly going to be stopped by the accumulated punished he was absorbing in three through seven ... Fury was dishing out brutal punishment and seemed much faster of hand , in fact I never saw Fury look as sharp offensively ... it should not be overlooked that Usyk has clearly lost a step and some speed from the man that beat AJ .. he retains insane footwork and terrific but not unlimited stamina .. he clearly was drained in the 10th and 11 himself and lacked the steam to finish Fury ... it was a great fight , in a way like Manila , a bout between great fighters past their best but still terrific that went in stages ..

 

I can't wait for the Superheavy Weight Myth Destroyed! thread when Joshua beats Fury.

 

Asking if Usyk beating Fury by SD means that dominant big fighters are a myth, makes as much sense as asking if all heavyweight champions who didn't defend against a 6-3, 223 pound Southpaw Olympic champion should have an (*) beside their names?

 

All good, Pug - and likewise. I can't recall us ever being diametrically opposed before, but it had to happen sometime, I guess

Our perspectives are clearly divergent beyond reconciliation on this occasion.

A case in point right here, to be frank.

Walking into your opponent's strike-range (I mean literally shuffling oneself into that position) keeping your gloves at waist-level, giving rise to a shot over the top that results in a KD is a 'significant mistake'. I honestly can't see that being anything but.

The 'major effect' being a 10-8 round to Usyk, without which (assuming Round-9 is scored a 10-9 round for Usyk) and the remaining scores fall as they did on the night), the outcome is a Split Draw.

Remarkable

Oh yes - it was a great fight - mistakes 'n' all

 

No worries. Apropos of my previous response, I shan't respond to every point, e.g Usyk slipping; just several select items to which I object (strongly, of course)

Ahh, the wisdom of "The Many" and none are more wise than the Legions of Online Forum-dom.

But, truth be told, the “

This content is protected

” line reflects an aspiration more than it represents a reality.

Whatever the story, it was a very, very low-key performance, which I don't think can be explained by some unique force of presence accompanying Ngannou. And, whatever the aura emanating from Ngannou was, it didn't seem to be perceivable by Joshua, who put paid to any idea of there being some kind of mystique there.

Hardly surprising, given the ever-decreasing circle Fury had been traversing for the previous 4 years.

Well - I don't take my counsel from RBR threads and, moreover, Fury being given kudos for recovering, which he did - eventually - does not take away from my point that he didn't demonstrate the powers of recovery he had done in the past against a far more lethal puncher in Wilder.

Translates as, in actuality, an eked out Split Decision victory, the turning point of which - again, in actuality - occurred in round-9.

But that's the very nature of the phrase "It was [insert fighter's name here] fight to lose." I don't, therefore, view it as unusual that a critique of Fury's performance would ensue.

Not a great example really, given Fury hardly came roaring back into the Ngannou fight, after the KD.

You see, it's comments like these that do make me chuckle a bit. "Usyk was hitting Fury hard and often" WTF?

Punch Stats have Usyk landing a total of 170 punches. For a stark comparison (not that one is needed to know that this is a low figure), Old Man Foreman landed 229 on Moorer in less than 10 rounds.

The KD was the pivotal point in the bout and changed the result - and, yes, 'Dems the breaks'.

And I shall leave it there and the last word to you should you wish to respond. I think we could go back and forth on this, ad infinitum, and not resolve the differences.

All I'll say is I believe that, should there be a rematch, then the fighter who could potentially improve on his performance the most is Fury. I'd like to be able to say he was likely to improve the most, but he just may not have anything left in the tank to deliver on such improvements.

Not at all. I am not offended by harsh words; more by abject displays of stupidity, which cannot be said of well-reasoned (in the main ) arguments.

 

He is the exact same size as Ali

Yeah ive never thought that size really mattered that much above 190lbs and basically doesnt matter at all above 210lbs. Obviously different limb lengths and body types have different advantages and disadvantages. I think the likes of the pre 60s heavyweights couldnt survive in the modern era if you directly transported them, but ONLY due to performance enhancing drugs being a factor for modern athletes.

If you give the likes of prime Joe Louis or Jack Dempsey the same drug protocol as modern top contenders and adjust their cardio for 12 rounds, they come in MUCH different and would be genuine threats to the division, even without having to teach them """modern boxing""" or make them slap a tennis ball attached to their head, or other stupid **** like that. Usyk is for sure special, but i don't regard him as more special than the likes of Ali, Tyson, Louis or Dempsey.

 

Gotta say it is refreshing how this discussion is staying reasonably civil and constructive compared with the trashtalking going on in the main forum.

 

Excellent from you both. You guys have put on a debating performance almost as good as the fight you are discussing…but without the KD/KO or whatever the ****it was.

Different views, great points from both defending your positions, respectful throughout.

Great job guys.

 

Poll in the general forum asking who won the fight and it was something like 80 for Usyk 2 for Fury. You guys in here are some of the last people in the world still holding on to the idea that Fury did anything but get his butt kicked.

 

Ngannou was Fury's worst performance, yes, but in general he has been up and down in shape and performance since coming back. He didn't exactly look great against Pianetta or Wallin either.

The Whyte performance was better than most of his performances before Wilder 2, though. He easily handled and KO'd a contender around the top 5 while being in so, so shape. That's not the mark of a past it fighter.

Whyte might be the second best fighter he has beaten and he made it look very easy.

Why do you pretend I didn't say it was a very good tactical performance from Fury, but not technical?

In terms of technical skill it was very overrated as was Fury. People were seriously saying he was as skilled as Usyk, but that hopefully won't be repeated now.

The truth is that Fury is severely lacking in defensive responsibility,.which is probably why he has tried to stay away from quick and technical fighters that can exploit this. He certainly tried to with Usyk.

But this will fall on deaf ears with you if it indeed was you who thoughts Geale and Lemieux are better than Kalambay.

Was it?

 

I'd say it was BCS8 from memory. MM would never take that stance....not a chance.

 

It was. I think he said Murray was also better than Michael Watson. That GGG Toney thread was madness.

 

That is a good point and is the main reason why it is so difficult to make a fair comparison between fighters from far away eras.

Bring Joe Louis to the present and I doubt he would be weighting just the 200 pounds he used in his prime. Adjust by weightlifting, nutritional supplements, and even without any "performance additives" we are probably talking of a Joe Louis with 15-20 extra pounds of muscle.

 

As I mentioned, it was ok but not great and I wouldn't place it above the Wlad and Wilder I bouts (I probably wouldn't consider it better than Fury/Chisora II, tbh). It was also Fury's first fight since the Wilder trilogy and over two years ago, a time in which a lot can happen. And, Whyte has proven to be of a level that isn't ever really going to exceed the types of life-and-death struggles he had with Chisora and Parker and getting KO'd whenever he moves up in class.

Probably because I didn't see where you'd stated "it was a very good tactical performance" until just now, and I'm not sure you did, previously.

Yes you've already asserted this. I disagree.

If that's your take, then... ... ... ...

Of course it wasn't!

Hell will freeze over before I come out with such guff!