His punch is 100% certainly not overrated, because I have never seen a puncher hit so hard that the glove breaks. This content is protected
I a Same With Quick Tillis. Guys get knocked out by other fighters but get knocked down by Shavers and come back to win and say he hits harder. And those funny quotes about him from Ali, Tillis and Tex Cobb all made to make Shavers out to be a better puncher than he was to make their accomplishments look greater.
I read interviews with Noton and Holmes, both of whom stated he was the hardest puncher they faced. When comparing Foreman and Shavers, Norton said, "when Foreman hit me, I got up. When Shavers hit me, I stayed down." Not a great fighter by any means, but an absolutely murderous puncher. I like the story Holmes recalled about playing cards once with Shavers and a few other notable heavies of the day. Shavers was on a winning streak, and the others, upset at this, suggested mildly that he might have been cheating. Shavers merely looked up from the table balefully and grunted, "If anyone wants to come and take this money from me, come get it." Nobody moved a muscle. Shavers kept the money.
If only Earnie Shavers had the ability to take a punch and the stamina to go with his power, he may have been champion.
He’s underrated. Yes, he lost to some journeyman, but you have to understand his situation. Earnie didn’t have the big financial backing the Olympic medalists. He was basically barnstorming the country, taking fights on short notice. I believe for a few years he was having as many as ten fights a year. The Quarry fight was embarrassing; I can make no excuses for it. But taking on Lyle in his high altitude hometown was ballsy, and with a different ref and location that fight could easily been stopped in Earnie’s favor after he flattened Lyle at the end of a round. I personally think he beat Ali decisively. He hammered him, and if he hadn’t been so worried about stamina, probably could’ve knocked him out if he stepped it up. He’d be much more highly regarded if given the victory, instead of just a victim of the Ali myth. After that, aside from the Norton win, things got rather ugly. I think Earnie was in it for the money only at that point.
I think his punch technique, accuracy and speed is underrated at times - but he certainly wasn’t consistent in those regards - and became that much more sloppy when his tank was emptying. There was raw power there, for sure, but it wasn’t completely unsupported - and Earnie’s exceptional reach also allowed for getting some big shots over (see overhand right) that might not have otherwise connected. I don’t think he was clear and away the hardest puncher - but then in terms of consistency - he probably punched harder, more often than anyone else - Earnie himself made this very point also. Earnie said that some might hit as hard he did with their BEST punch but no one hit as hard as often as he did. A guy whose substantive power warrants say 7/10 on average just might hit you with a random 9/10 punch - but a guy hitting you consistently with at least 8/10 power shots - including some 9/10s thrown in, will likely impress you as the much harder puncher. Earnie often laid it all out in the early rounds - punching with badder intentions and more effort than most other fighters - therefore he encountered stamina issues later in a number of fights. For comparison, Liston punched very hard but his power was considerately harnessed within a better, more rounded skill set. Sonny never swung for the fences as Shavers often did but he still hit very hard all the same - and, in his prime, he could punch very hard for a full 12 rounds. Earnie paced himself beautifully against Ali but still landed some serious bombs throughout. Possibly his best, all round performance aside from some of his early round KO’s otherwise. Earnie’s executions in the Norton fight were pretty much perfect - I also like his performance in the Henry Clark rematch - close to making all the right moves for as long as the fight lasted. There are several fights for which Earnie’s alleged lack of skill and finishing abilities cannot be blamed for him not securing the KO - fights in which Earnie did get to land his best shots within a sufficient time frame to yield a KO - if it was actually possible. To name two, Stander and Cobb soaked up everything Shavers had to offer - their chins were simply too good. Though, it should be noted that Earnie was older vs Cobb and there were clearly traction issues with the canvas - which likely took from the true potential of Shaver’s power - and probably also lent itself to hastening the depletion of Earnie’s tank - taking more effort just to hold your feet. All in all, Earnie is a legend in my book and very much part of the 70s iconic, Rock Steady Crew. Now, if Earnie’s fights vs Young ever turn up, that would really be something.
People sometimes forget there's a very big difference between raw power and effective power. A bum off the street can have as much raw power as a gorilla, but it doesn't mean he'd make for a good fighter. Effective power is essentially having the timing, accuracy, and follow through technique to actually transfer the energy being carried by your arm into your opponent. The transfer of kinetic energy. Shavers had as much raw power as probably any boxer who lived, but could be very sloppy. Occasionally he proved to have good timing and could get all his weight into his punches for devastating effects. The problems started when it came to actually finishing opponents who had good skill and endurance to survive the initial bomb that hurt them in the first place. Which leads to the 2nd category that makes a truly effective puncher: being a good finisher. Finishing an opponent is a skill, dare j say an art form. When Shavers had a guy hurt, he usually saw red and just swung for the fences. Rarely did he do the things that help break down a stumbling opponent such as going got he body, targeting the temple, or patiently waiting for an opening and setting up shots with care. If Shavers was a better finisher, he would've destroyed Holmes and Lyle and we'd be having very different discussions about his legacy. Now as far as h2h stars go, this is how I see it. Prime Earnie "Acorn" Shavers (1976-1979) stats: Power 10 Speed 6 Chin 7 Stamina 6.5 Ring IQ 5 Footwork 5 Technique 7 Accuracy 4 Timing 7.5 Offense 8 Defense 4 Body shots 6 Heart 7 Overall rating: 6.4 Roughly a lower B level threat outside of his raw power, which was A+. Prime Shavers was a good contender but fairly beatable if you had world class skill, chin, and survival ability.
He was a solid over-all heavyweight in a deep era, and his power was a game-changing X factor that meant he was always in the fight. Like most punchers though he himself was vulnerable.
LeRoy Caldwell was KO'd by both Shavers and Foreman. His opinion would seem about as good an honest comparison between the two you can get, as he doesn't gain anything by pumping up one over the other. Ken Norton shares the same, uh, accolade. Did he ever comment on the two?
Devastating power floored Holmes and had Al reeling around the ring . But was like Bert Cooper on a good night he was a beast but too inconsistent .
I voted Top 20+ but some extremely poor and uninformed opinions in this thread. I'm sick of Earnie's unknowing critics. No, he wasn't even top 20 H2H all time, but he was pretty damned good in his time, and arguments have been made that he should've become undisputed HW Titlist after the Championship Distance with Ali. In terms of power, Earnie is indeed the all time GOAT, doing what he did with eight and ten ounce gloves. The supremacy of his power is not something which has a reputation waxed poetic by talented writers, but by ALL his opponents except a noteworthy two. Ellis reportedly claimed not to be impressed, but the footage proves Jimmy never knew what hit him, and NOBODY else ever put Ellis down for the count, let alone like that. If you saw the live broadcast, then you also saw him puke his guts out after he gave Shavers a congratulatory embrace. Joe Frazier indicated to Jim Clash that the final hook he floored Ellis with which ended their first bout may have been Frazier's hardest career shot, yet after a preceding beat down, Jimmy got up from it to beat the count at eight, faced his corner and walked to two steps necessary to get there, and sat down unassisted. Immediately after their bout, Jerry Quarry told Don Dunphy that "He never hit me!," then discovered to his shock when viewing the videotape the next day that he had indeed been hit. Earnie confirmed on camera that he indeed hit Jerry solidly when Dunphy commented, "Shavers scoring heavily." (JQ, for his part, rated Mac Foster in MacArthur's greatest performance, telling Dunphy in the ring afterwards that, "He can hit like heck, man! Whew!." Mac did in fact probably hit Jerry harder than Earnie had a chance to. In Tokyo later, Ali didn't give Mac a chance to unload like that.) Many here are saying opponents only rated Earnie after beating him. Let's set the damned record straight. Ali beat EVERYBODY he fought, and said on camera after his career that Shavers hit him the hardest. In fact, Earnie was the GOAT's true Manila. After Shavers, the neurological damage he inflicted forever wrecked that fine muscle coordination and timing. Cosell repeatedly noted during Leon II that Muhammad's timing was off in a winning effort.. Leroy Caldwell lost to Lyle, Foreman AND Shavers. He said on camera that Ron and George had the same level of punching power, but that Earnie had more power than Lyle and Foreman COMBINED! Henry Clark was stopped by both Liston and Shavers. He made it clear that Earnie hit much harder. Clark was also beaten by Mercado, O'Halloran, Norton, Howard "KO" Smith and Jeff Merritt at Candy Slim's peak. He BEAT O'Halloran (rated by Foreman), Merritt, Mac Foster, Machen and Leotis. Norton swelled his eyes shut by round nine to stop him. Otherwise, only Liston and Shavers halted Henry. Nobody ever put Clark on the floor, and there's an argument for Henry Clark having a superior chin to Chuvalo (who was unofficially decked by Bonavena, stunned by Foreman, and buckled by Mike DeJohn). The footage makes in clear that in their rematch, Shavers hurt him far more severely in just two rounds than a still deadly Liston did in seven. (Chuck Wepner has always been emphatic that Sonny's power was vastly superior to Foreman's. In fact, George stopped him on cuts. Liston bulled Chuck down on his rump in round five with a driving right to the big man's midsection. Otherwise, only Buster Mathis hooked Wepner down in Chuck's third bout, and Ali exhausted him down with a sustained five round attack right before the end of the Championship Distance when Wepner was 35.) Shavers and Tyson have two common opponents. Mike needed three KD's to put a rusty and aged Larry down and out. The footage makes it clear that Earnie hit peak Larry much harder. Nobody disputes this. Tillis was very clearly in far more serious trouble with Shavers after Earnie's ninth round long right sent James on his face for nearly a full count in a bout Quick was dominating. Tyson's KD of Quick was only a flash which didn't hurt Tillis, and I had Quick beating Tyson, 6-4, but rigged scoring rigging protected Mike from what would have been a disastrous result. Joe Bugner lost to a come backing Earnie in two rounds, and has made it clear Shavers was the hardest puncher he ever fought. Bugner didn't say Frazier, he didn't say Frank Bruno, he didn't say Mac Foster (who he beat), he didn't say Bonecrusher Smith (who he beat after one round when Bonecrusher got a nasty looking dislocated shoulder, but Bugner did get nailed flush with a hard right during those three minutes), he didn't say Bey (who he beat), O'Halloran (who he beat), Page (who he beat), Lyle (who he pushed to a close SD over 12 rounds), or Henry Cooper (who he controversially beat over the Championship Distance. Among other common opponents of Shavers and Foreman, Jimmy Young emphatically rated Earnie over George. He BEAT Foreman, but was stopped by then drew with Shavers. There is objective proof for the supremacy of Earnie's power here. Nobody else ever put Jimmy on the deck, and Shavers did it with a hook twice, one in each of their matches. Charley Polite was knocked out by Earnie in three and Big George in four. He rated Shavers over Foreman, Bugner, O'Halloran, Frazier, Bob Foster, Floyd Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Tiger Williams, Lee Canalito, Cooney and Merritt. Lyle. Big Ron was floored and severely damaged by a single hook, then the bell saved him. Lyle said, "He hit me and the floor came up!" Ron wanted no part of Earnie in a rematch, but was desperate to get a rematch with Foreman, so much so that when George came back, Lyle also came back. So among the six common opponents of Shavers and Foreman, Muhammad Ali (win by KO over George), Jimmy Young (floored and beaten by Earnie, but decked and UDed Foreman), Charley Polite (stopped by both), Ken Norton (stopped quickly by both and said on camera that Shavers hit harder than Foreman or Cooney), and Ron Lyle (who was decked by Earnie, George and Gerry) ALL rated Shavers over Foreman for power. When well trained, who had the superior stamina, Earnie Shavers or George Foreman in his 20's? Well, Shavers won rounds 13 and 14 on all three cards against Ali, and a case can be made Earnie should have been awarded the third and final Championship Round while Foreman never went past ten in his first career. (And while Muhammad had Shavers in very serious trouble during the final eight seconds, it was the final eight seconds, so no, Earnie was not almost knocked out. Youthful George NEVER produced a KD beyond round five. But Earnie uniquely dropped and stopped Tiger Williams at the end of ten rounds, also stopped Rochell Norris and Chuck Leslie in ten rounds, and knocked Vincente Rondon out of the ring as time expired in the first big fight Shavers had. Other examples of Earnie having much superior late round knockdown power than young Foreman are obviously the ninth round blast on Tillis, and his hardest career punch landed on then top three ATG HW Holmes in round seven. Regarding his chin, Earnie's usual slugging left it open to counters. Yet, in through the first substantive 88 bouts of his career covering 14 years, he was only dropped six times, by Ron Stander, by Bob Stallings, a guy with the arms the length of somebody standing 6'6" and ridiculously underrated punching power who also beat Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster and took Lyle the ten round distance. Stallings retired with a pedestrian record of 32-31, but was a miserable SOB like Leroy Caldwell to take on when competition sharpened and well trained, and still has all his marbles at 80. Jerry Quarry needed around 60 punches after hurting Earnie to finally drop him, Lyle in a war where he finally punched himself out in Ron's Denver altitude, a situation where he had to stop Lyle to win. Stander, JQ, Stallings, Lyle, Mercado and Sims decked him, once apiece. Ron and Bernardo had to get off the deck first. Lyle did it in Denver for the count when Earnie punched himself out. (BoxWRECK has Lyle-Shavers as a TKO, but we all know how completely BoxWRECK SUCKS!) Stander also did it in Omaha, again after Earnie punched himself out against an impervious chin. (Frazier and Norton couldn't drop Stander, who was stopped a number of times, but never an easy knockdown.) By comparison, Foreman was decked twice by Lyle, for the count by Ali, and finally by Young (who failed to drop Earnie in 13 rounds of competition. Earnie was stopped by Cobb and in Holmes II without going down. Shavers had decent durability. He went 23 rounds with Holmes without going down. Larry had just one punched Evangelista, pounded down Ocasio with his jab for a near ten count, destroyed Weaver with a single right uppercut, and would ten count Zanon, stop Leroy Jones in eight, LeDoux in seven and Ali after ten. Nobody ever went more rounds with Holmes, and Earnie did it against a peak Assassin. Lyle couldn't land him until he was exhausted in a legendary war. As an amateur, he decisioned deadly southpaw Nick Wells, who flattened Holmes twice. Next is Earnie's very rarely viewed first match with Henry Clark in Paris. Henry had just quickly wiped out a coked Jeff Merritt in only 47 seconds, while Shavers came in with a badly bruised right. So Earnie knew he'd have to go the full ten rounds in what also happened to be Larry Merchant's broadcasting debut, and he's bewildered by how it unfolds. This is the best skill Shavers displays on camera. (Again, this is incredibly rare, and hasn't been on YouTube in many years. Catch it while you can!): This content is protected
Yes he did, and on camera like Caldwell and Lyle, but I can't find it at the moment. But Ken indeed rated Shavers over Foreman and Cooney.
