Who was better, the Louis that Schmeling beat or the Ali that Frazier beat?

If you’re going to be this cocky in every thread, you should at least have a clue on what you’re talking about.

 

His legs & reflexes were gone, now. Not diminished slightly or somewhat, they were flat gone. That’s how he swept the first five rounds of the fight vs one of the greatest Heavyweights ever. That’s how he ran him close over fifteen insanely gruelling rounds. Without any reflexes.

Amazing.

 

True, Without those amazing legs, timing, reflexes and stamina he ran Joe Frazier close but became hittable, especially that 11th round when he got tagged by Frazier's left hook and almost went down. Would that would have happened in 1967? Probably not, Muhammad Ali would have evaded those head shots.

 

If his legs & reflexes were gone in 1971 I’d expect nothing less than a 15-0 shutout. Never mind that Ali said after the fight Frazier would have beaten him in 1967. We all know how famously modest he was.

 

Yeah, Joe Frazier's manager Yank Durham would never allow Frazier to face a peak Muhammad Ali in 1967.

 

I was referring to a fantasy match such as ’71 Frazier vs ’67 Ali. How you can watch the FOTC & spout such blatant lies about Ali’s condition to diminish Frazier’s win is beyond Human comprehension. It was a gruelling, relentless battle Ali damn near won. He wouldn’t have lasted a round if he were anywhere close to being what you describe.

 

Hey Pal, It is not a lie about Yank Durham not allowing his charge Joe Frazier to fight then champion Muhammad Ali in 1967, that was from an article in our local newspapers sports page from July 10 1967. Are you still butthurt because I and many others had Roberto Duran at 135 lbs beating your man Sweet Pea Whittaker?, if so, get over it. Life moves on, I sense some resentment coming from you. I have been watching pro boxing since 1965. I have been on this site since July 2019. Ali had no legs in March of 1971, he had only two comeback fights in 43 months prior to fighting Frazier in FOTC, Ali had no stamina as he had in 1967, he laid on the ropes, allowing Frazier to punish him. I do not care for moral victories, just victories. I do not care for dramatic fights, it's like watching a Soap Opera, Yawn, very boring.

 

Of course Durham didn’t allow Frazier to fight him. He was two years into his pro career. Ali was by then a Champion for longer than Frazier had even been in the pros. If that is a, “victory” to you then so be it. I don’t believe you’ve ever seen the FOTC if you think Ali had no legs or reflexes.

I didn’t object to you picking Durán, you were upset I picked Whitaker.

 

He was trying to portray that he was better than ever at a time when some were saying he was done. Trying to remain relevant trumped ego on this occasion for good reason. Old pugs are like that.

 

Whoa, you think a 21 year old Louis who hasn't full developed his game would beat FOTC Frazier? I'm not saying that's an impossible task for Louis, but you have a very high opinion of a still developing boxer who hadn't even won the championship yet.

 

I’ll go with Louis. He was coming off two fantastic wins and wouldn’t lose again for another decade. And all the talk about him not taking the bout as serious as he should have, while maybe true, that’s always almost given as the reason with said fighter loses a big match. From Louis to Tyson in Tokyo and so forth.

 

I have seen pro boxing since 1965, I heard the Fight Of The Century on my Mom's stereo console radio, it was round by round, then when they finally televised it as an extra to Muhammad Ali's victory over George Foreman, I saw both fights on ABC's Wide World Of Sports in Jan 1975. But remember I saw Ali's title defenses from 1965 until 1967, the year that he was stripped of his title and boxing license. In my opinion, I really believe if the 1967 version of Ali had shown up on March 8 1971 in Madison Square Garden against Joe Frazier, he would have unanimously decisioned Frazier, as that version of Ali had stamina, footwork, timing and reflexes. No one can be out 43 months and be the same, remember Ali did not have a boxing license to fight legally in the boxing ring, he was termed a convicted felon for refusing to submit to the military draft, it was a felony in 1967. I take it you just like to oppose everything that I post, you are entitled to your own opinion as I am mine. This is a classic boxing site, not the world stage, it is not life or death, it is just for fun. You seem to take it that everyone has to adjust to your way of thinking about boxing, it is not so in my book. I was watching pro boxing when it was live on television for free, I don't have all the answers and not an expert, but I will post my opinion and no one has the right to force me to change, it's just not happening, just like I cannot change your opinions. Everybody has the right to their opinions, including you and myself.

 

Very true. It would be a brutal match one way or the other.

 

How can you say Louis "never looked better" than he did against Carnera and Baer when he literally improved his overall game, gained experience, and fixed his weakness after the Schmeling loss?