Would Usyk Be A Stylistic Nightmare For Ali?

So Joshua was old and not prime before he fought Usyk? You seem to be countering your own arguments. I may be nostalgic but I doubt it. I have lived long enough to see several eras of fighters and I believe what I see. I question your exposure to boxing given your naive posts but I see that as a personal failing on your part. Have a good day, “the master”. lol

 

As i've said Ali is rated highly H2H due to how many quality Heavyweights he's beaten, and his title reign between 64-67 was one of the most impressive dominant title reigns in history in which Ali dominated and stopped multiple top 10 ranked Heavyweights. If a fighter is consistently fighting 3 times a year against strong opposition year in and year out you will see weaknesses now and again. I don't think it takes away from Ali's H2H ability infact it heightens it because Ali was slightly past his prime in the 70s, and still remained as the best of a very strong era taking on many tough opponents and different styles and more often than not found a way to win.

You're splitting hairs Usyk was pretty much in his prime vs Hunter and had many notable performances prior and shortly after the Hunter fight there is no difference. Ali and Usyk were pretty much in their prime and had trouble early on vs an opponent that was unremarkable, but both went on the convincingly beat their opponent and dominate after a slow start. The only difference is Usyk went the distance with Hunter and Ali stopped Mildenberger.

My point is you're using the Mildenberger fight as an example but you dismiss the Hunter fight as an example when in actual fact both fights have the same type of relevance.

Yes Usyk is beating bigger guys and i've already gave him plenty of credit for it but as i've said before i don't consider Fury, Joshua, as greats. They're very good Heavyweights and due to the size difference they're impressive wins for Usyk, but i still don't think Usyk has beaten a single fighter who i would consider a great. So whilst Usyk does have one aspect over Ali in regards to beating Super Heavyweights, Ali also has an aspect over Usyk in which he's beaten numerous great and ATG fighters where as Usyk has not.

 

Well you could also argue Fury is not in his prime either he's ballooned up and down in weight throughout the years abusing his body with drugs and what have you. And was also coming off a terrible performance vs an MMA fighter in which alot of people thought he lost.

But in all honestly i have a hard time fathoming what Fury's prime actually was TBH, because he hasn't fought many notable fighters has been inactive and shown too many vulnerabilities for me to really know when his actual prime was.

What i will say is that Fury definitely showed better form in the Usyk fight compared to the Ngannou fight, but i don't think you can consider Fury is in his prime now but neither is Usyk either so that evens itself out.

 

Liston was a huge favourite over Ali and is considered greater than Fury or Joshua, i never said Williams was a standout win i said he's rated higher than the likes of Dubois, Chisora, my point was to show Usyk hasn't got much filler to his Heavyweight resume.

 

Its just hard for me to consider someone as technically flawed as Ali the number 1 H2H I think there are plenty of good heavyweights that would give him trouble and I think its bizarre that people say someone as flawed as him was invincible when he wasn't he got hit plenty of times even in his prime. But sure in terms of resume at heavyweight no one beats Ali. Also I think 70s Ali wasn't that much worse then before his exile especially when he took his training seriously he looked just as good in the second Frazier fight and second Norton fight as he did at his best imo.
Well I would say Hunter is a much better opponent then Mildenberger and this was when Usyk was constantly changing trainers and still coming into his own as a pro but regardless like I said its an apples to oranges comparison so not super relevant
You might not consider them greats but I would say they're great wins, find me another boxer who is able to constantly overcome huge size, reach and height disadvantages like Usyk is able to and beat skilled superheavyweights.

 

Stylistically tough, but not a nightmare. He'd give Ali issues, but wouldn't beat him.

 

Pure H2H ability as i said i would favour Patterson over more notable Heavyweights of his size than i would Joshua over notable Heavyweights of his size. And as i've already pointed out Patterson is considered a greater Heavyweight than Joshua.

So i don't think your prior comment of "Usyk has beaten better Heavyweights than Ali did during 64-67" is necessarily a factual comment.

 

So basically the only way you can justify Patterson being better is to equalize size lol don't you see how that's a huge reach? And if you consider size, can't we agree that Usyk overcoming a huge size difference is more impressive then Ali beating up a smaller heavyweight?

 

I agree if it was an Ali before Frazier 3 who was in great shape and prepared. I think Usyk would have definitely given him some significant problems.

 

I don't think Ali would win every fight in history i think he would struggle vs Lewis, Wladimir, Vitali, Tyson, etc. But i think based on his resume and the dominance he showed in his prime during 64-67 you have to rate him highly based on that. I don't think he's unbeatable no Heavyweight in history is unbeatable but i rate him highly H2H based on the above.

I agree it's not very relevant that's the point i'm trying to make, Ali and Usyk both dominated Hunter and Mildenberger in the end so i don't think either fight has much relevance. If Ali would've struggled and won a close points decision over Mildenberger i would agree with you, but in reality it took Ali a few rounds to adjust to the Southpaw style and in the end he dominated and won pretty decisively just like Usyk did with Hunter.

I also agree that Usyk's wins over Joshua and Fury are great in the context of the size difference and the fact that they're classed as very good Heavyweight no disagreement from there.

 

It's two different eras so its hard to compare Heavyweights yes Ali had size advantage over Patterson, but Patterson is considered a greater fighter than Joshua and also went on to have a good resurgence in the latter part of his career.

Joshua also lost to a 6'0 fat man in Ruiz who had a 74 inch reach.

 

Usyk would be a handful for Ali simply based on his ability and the ring IQ he brings to the table. But I don’t think he would pose a “stylistic nightmare” for Ali.

 

Regardless of size, Joshua simply isn't of the caliber required to beat a prime Ali.

While fans will want to big up Usyk's victories over Joshua, they will tend not to recognize the utterly flawed tactics of the latter which bore no discernible difference across two bites at the apple.

 

But in no universe can you argue Ali beating Patterson was a better win then Usyk beating Joshua (not even taking account that Patterson was injured and that's why he looked so bad)

 

And all you're doing is basing everything on size Joshua is a far from a great and hasnt beaten a ranked Heavyweight since dancing away from an even fatter version of Ruiz is 2019.

You made comment that Usyk has beaten better Heavyweights than Ali did in 64-67 and I don't agree, and you're only argument is based on size and not looking at how good/great those Heavyweights are. Joshua is not a great neither is Fury, Chisora has never been ranked in the top 10 and Dubois is a fringe contender at the moment until he proves otherwise.

You want to discredit any notable win of Ali but yet your say the Fury win is the best thing since sliced bread even though a majority had him losing to a novice MMA fighter prior to Usyk fight.