The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

I’ve already broke down how damn good Archie was when Marciano beat him. On the best run of his career and having not lose in four years beating top notch competition. The prior year before the Marciano bout beating a whole host of excellent fighters. But some how he was a shopworn useless fighter a shell of himself. The lengths these clowns go to to try and bring a man down

 

Sure. But it helps if people try to be fair in their era analysis. Rocky's era is being criticized for the success of old past prime fighters and for the success of small fighters but thats true of many other eras as well.

Plenty of past prime fighters like Tucker, Holyfield, Witherspoon, Tubbs, Foreman and Holmes had success in the 1990s/early 2000s and nobody seems troubled by all these old men enjoying success like Holyfield who was competitive with Lewis at 37 and when out to beat Ruiz and Rahman subsequently.

You also had Holyfield moving up from cruiserweight, Moorer moving up from light heavyweight and former middleweights like Toney and Jones having success.

 

It is unbelievable really when they must be aware of the available knowledge that’s constantly been directed at them.

 

The elephant in the room is "been there, done that" is a real thing,

Giving someone the same credit who has not been there and done that is mere fantasy.

We are entitled to our fantasies, but don't expect others to share them.

*I admit I don't know how matches with fighters from different generations would come out. I only have assumptions and opinions. What I can judge is who beat whom in their own era and were the fighters they beat at some point great fighters. Records tell us that.

 

"They both became champions"

If there were multiple champions in the 1950's, guys like Baker, Valdes, and Layne would probably have been champions also.

We are talking different eras. In one there was a single champion. In the other there were multiple champions. Holmes, Spinks, and Tyson were the real 1980's champions, not Berbick and Bruno, or any of the other paper champions.

 

"Bruno was a good win but he's probably no better than Layne as far as accomplishments go."

Did Bruno beat two undisputed heavyweight champions? I don't see knocking Layne. He had solid accomplishments for a mere contender.

 

I meant it as a compliment to Layne as I think highly of Bruno as a contender. Both have good wins…that being said Layne severely underrated at least the best version of him is. His inconsistency hurt his legacy

 

"Holmes beat Witherspoon, Weaver, and Mercer in their primes. None of them were shopworn at the time Holmes beat them, and they all are arguably hall of fame worthy."

Weaver was 19-8 when he fought Holmes and had been KO'd four times. Overall in his career, he was 41-18-1 with 12 KO defeats. My take is he was an ordinary contender who lucked into becoming a paper champ.

Witherspoon was a 15 fight novice. That is simply not enough pro fights for anyone to be prime. And many didn't think Holmes even deserved the decision. There was no rematch to clear the air. Overall, another ordinary contender.

Mercer was unbeaten in 18 fights, but lost to the 42 year old Holmes, and that outcome doesn't back up your "shopworn" obsession. It instead proves that the experienced old fellow can outbox the young but less skilled tiger. Mercer would go on to lose to all the top men.

None of these three ever beat anyone who was ever the best, before or after. For that reason, I think Elmer Ray and Rex Layne have better Hall of Fame cases, although I wouldn't vote for either of them.

 

Here is the dictionary definition:

Shopworn--made dirty or imperfect by being displayed or handled in a store.

Like mileage, you are applying to humans a word not intended to be used for humans.

"This isn't the Charles who fought Rocky"

Who is it then? This fight was only about a year earlier.

 

When you use their criticisms against their own favorite fighters they quickly find no fighter can live to those insane expectations. Not to mention they never mention any of Rocky’s prime opponents and they fail to mention the average age of Marciano opponents is younger than that of Holmes and Tyson.

 

Stop

Marciano has best case 9 fighters with a pulse on his record, the rest are clubfighters from the No Hoper circuit.

Tyson would beat Marcianos 40th and 41th fight victims in his Pro debut.

 

The way careers work out it’s not such a bad ratio. I am the first to admit Marcianos legacy was always limited to a small number of fights. And he won those fights. Nobody can argue with that.

Tysin himself was ridiculously manufactured. He got all the way to the title with a short number of fights, everyone handpicked. It’s easy to look great in those circumstances. Look, I take my hat off to mike for delivering. He could so easily been like so many other invested in prospects who blew their opportunity. Tyson was but a boy yet he delivered because he believed in the sport. And I will forever credit him for that.

but don’t go making comparisons like , Tyson beats Marcianos 41 and 42nd opponent in his debut. Not at least without looking who George Foreman fought ahead of challenging Joe Frazier.

All these things need putting into context,

 

Dude, I can't laugh this hard anymore. I've got a hernia. Stop, please.