What would Usyk need to do to get inside your top 10 all time heavyweight list?

He was clearly (at least that version of Young) better than the likes of Leon, Brewster, Rahman, and McCall.

Whether he was better than Schmeling is up for debate but guess what? Frazier was also in a class above Jimmy Young. Didn't do him much good when he stepped in the ring with Foreman. Funny how that works.

 

He'd be lucky ot have gone 2-3 against Leon, Brewster, Rahman, and McCall. Rahman almost definitely wins on a jab.

 

The reasons for various fights not happening is hardly relevant, you establish yourself by beating your contemporaries not via fans claiming you'd beat them and making excuses for why various fights didnt happen. Joshua not facing Zhang, Wilder, Fury, Rivas, Ortiz, Joyce etc doesn't look good from a legacy perspective regardless of excuses.
Fury wasn't fighting in 2016 or 2017 or most of 2018 so you have a nearly 3 year period to fight Wilder when Fury wasn't even active.

Since losing to Usyk Fury has had 4 fights none of whom are as highly regarded as Zhang. Certainly he would have been a more repectable opponent than Ngannou, Helenius, etc. So not fighting Zhang is not a great look given who he fought instead. There's plenty of guys more capable and highly regarded than his post Usyk lineup.

 

Nobody is making excuses. Their are a multitude of reasons why fights don't happen that have nothing to do with fighters being scared of one another which you're implying is the case why we never saw Joshua fight the aforementioned fighters.

As I've already demonstrated, a matchup with Zhang was never plausible at all.

Rivas' highest ranking when Joshua was champ was number 5 (by the WBO), so he was by no means his mandatory. Had he gotten past Whyte, (and AJ not lost to Ruiz) he very likely would've gotten his shot.

Ortiz was offered $5,000,000 to meet Joshua when Miller fell through. Ortiz declined and Ruiz got the spot.

As for Fury, weren't you just blaming him for not fighting Joshua? Now Joshua is taking the blame?? Are you all right mate?

Fury's had 4 fights since losing to Usyk? Where were they? Your basement?

 

I'll actually agree here given Young's inconsistency. But none of those men would beat the Young that fought Foreman. And even if they would've, that still doesn't automatically give them a win over Foreman. Frazoer would've easily beaten Young as well, so George shouldn't be a problem right?

lol

 

Without Joshua actually fighting these guys we don't know he beats them for sure and thus we don't have a good sense of how he rates in his own era. Until recently Deontay Wilder was considered a lock for top 4 in the current era and widely rated above Joshua. His losses to Parker and Zhang have totally changed the perception of how he rates because actual results trump opinions. If someone tries to argue that Wilder was better than Joshua or Parker and Zhang his losses to Parker and Zhang are going to inevitably be brought up. The perception of Wilder being better than them doesn't trump them actually beating them. How do you reconcile Wilder losing to Parker with the general perception he was the 3rd/4th best of this era.

Joshua had a good run in 2017/2018 beating Klitschko, Parker, and Povetkin but as of right now I wouldn't put him ahead of Kabayel or Parker based on recent work. They both should be rewarded for taking on tough opponents and winning.

 

Rahman was only down on the cards near his prime against Ruiz and Holyfield. Young wouldn't be grappling with him and headbutting.

 

He will never get the respect he deserves because he doesn't get flashy knockouts like the severely overrated Tyson.

 

Usyk is already getting respect by the truckload and then some.

 

If he got enough, then this thread wouldn't exist.

 

OK - Sorry, but that reads like a whiny dig at how people rate fighters on their All-Time standing.

Usyk is 6-0 in the Heavyweight division. I suppose you think this makes him a lock for the Top-10 Greatest Heavyweights of All Time.

 

Most fans on here have been saying Usyk is a Heavyweight ATG after only handful of fights, and I've seen alot of fans in the general forum rating Usyk in the top 20 and 10 of all time.

How much more credit can he get ?

Usyk has had a ton of credit and praise recently some of the praise I think has gone a bit overboard. But still there certainly is alot of respect for Usyk and hes also rated P4P number 1 right now.

 

If he got enough credit, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The dude is 3-0 against the best heavyweights of this era. You can argue that this era isn't very deep, but Joshua and Fury would be top 3-5 in most any era. Tyson was 2-3 against the best heavyweights of his era and wasn't competitive against two of them, and almost EVERYONE puts him in the all-time top 10. Holmes was 0-3 against Spinks and Holyfield. Nobody has a problem with him in the top 10. Add that to the fact that Usyk cleared out a stacked CW (many of them bigger than past HW champions) and he has more than enough record to be top 10.

Now, if Fury beats Usyk in the rematch, the conversation changes. But that's true with any fighter. If Spinks beats Tyson, Holyfield beats Lewis, Norton gets a fair decision against Ali, Foreman beats Ali, all of those single fights cause major changes in the ATG conversation.

 

You're assumption that Joshua and Fury would be Top-5 in any other era aside, you're criteria doesn't really ask a lot of its candidates, does it? I imagine using that kind of a limited yardstick could throw up quite a number of previously unconsidered Top-10 claimants - past, present and future, across all the divisions.


EDIT:

The notion that results from a distinctly different division, such as Cruiserweight, should count towards a Heavyweight rating is fundamentally disingenuous.

 

He's P4P number 1 and rated very highly amongst a majority of the fans like i said i don't know how he can get anymore credit than what he's already getting.

Mike Tyson went 37-0 in the 80s and had one of the most dominant impressive title reigns in history.

Holmes went 48-0 with 20 title defences.

It's not really hard to see why they're both in the top 10.

Joshua and Fury top 3-5 in most era's ? probably in older era's where they would have ridiculous height, weight, reach, advantages. But against Heavyweights more the size of Usyk ? like Ali, Holmes, Norton, Foreman, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, Witherspoon, i'm so sure. Fury has only beaten 3 ranked Heavyweights has been dropped 8 times and looked beatable in alot of fights i think his H2H ability is overrated.

Yes Heavyweights were smaller on average years ago but there was still no weight limit capped off at 200 pounds like there is in the Cruiserweight division. And i've seen this argument used alot for Usyk recently but why is this argument only being used now ? i never seen anyone using Haye's Cruiserweight's achievements to elevate his Heavyweight resume.

I think if you want to use this argument then these Cruiserweight fighters like Breidis have to atleast have some type of Heavyweight resume.