How exactly does Tyson beat Ali...?

Come on now - no one does that and the man that lost to Douglas wouldn’t be the one to take that title. Closest we’ve got is Louis by a mile.

 

Oscar Bonavena got into his head and he could barely speak English, Terrell called him Clay so he yelled at him in the ring a bit, but ET Is ET… Liston had him scared by admission SL thought he was a loony true? But as far as I know the only effect it had was making Liston worry about being sucker punched on the rise in the rematch - all he did was **** off Frazier and pay for it. I’ve never understood this myth either

 

@Pat M here has talked about this a few times, awareness can give the impression of a good chin and it would’ve helped with the the impression that Ali’s chin got better after the 60s and Foreman’s in the 90s.

 

I'm saying he can beat anyone. Of course he can also lose, he's human, but my point is that I have him favorite against pretty much anyone in a best of 5 series.

 

Which was ?!???

 

But we have statements from his camp that he was about to quit himself and wanted the gloves cut off

 

I disagree once a fighter has worked out Tyson's style he hasn't got a plan B to turn a fight around. A fighter like Lewis would definitely figure out Tyson and beat him in a best of 5.

Tyson wasn't known for stopping fighters in the 2nd half of the fight so if fighters like Holmes, Lewis, Ali, get Tyson past the 6th their chances of winning increase greatly.

 

Exactly what statements and made by whom though? The bottom line is Ali didn’t quit and wasn’t about to quit.

He’d battered Frazier in the previous round - basically teeing off on poor Joe - with his eye closed Joe had to be led back to his corner.

There’s no way Ali would quit after putting in 14 rounds with just 1 round to go.

Frazier was going to be at Ali’s mercy for the last round - Futch knew this and that is why he stopped the fight.

Ali had even more reason to quit against Holmes than he did in Manila - and Ali didn’t quit in that fight either.

Besides Tyson, Holmes also said that Ali would rather die than yield or surrender to any opponent.

 

Nope. you are a ****ing liar. At no point during the Frazier fight, which was not Ali's prime anyway, was he ever showing signs of being knocked out.

 

That's really interesting thx

 

Apart from the time he was knocked down you buffoon? Lol

 

He was also definitely badly hurt in the 11th round so much so I scored it a 10-8 round for Frazier.

 

Exactly.

 

Ali told his corner to cut his gloves off after the 14th round because he was so physically exhausted from trying to fend off Joe and from the immense heat inside the ring.
Ali later told Thomas Hauser, who wrote the 1991 biography, ‘Muhammad Ali: His Life And Times’ that “Frazier quit just before I did. I didn't think I could fight anymore,” and in the same book, Wali Muhammad (one of Ali’s cornermen for the fight) was quoted as saying, “After the fourteenth round, Ali came back to the corner and told us", “cut them off". “That's how tired he was. He wanted us to cut his gloves off. And Angelo ignored him. He started wiping Ali's face, getting him ready for the fifteenth round.”

 

Thanks.

I appreciate the provision of the quotes which are basically what I have read/heard before.

Whether Ali asked for the gloves to be cut or not, a passing sentiment such as that is well removed from actually quitting, which of course, Ali did not do.

All the material evidence of Ali’s career otherwise concretely suggests that Ali would not have quit and there were no indicators up to and including round 14 for anyone to think he would’ve quit.

If Ali had quit it would have been an absolute shock - particularly given the beating he administered to Joe in round 14 during which Ali even danced on several occasions to at least prove to Joe Ali had some gas in the tank.

Apparently Ali addressed the rumour of his wanting to quit in an IV with Cosell shortly after the fight.

Ali said quitting can cross ones mine for a nano second and then let pass without being seriously entertained. Ali said he was never going to quit - and especially not against Joe Frazier.

And finally, to repeat, Ali had far more reason to quit against Holmes (Ali was exhausted after just the first round) and he didn’t voluntarily yield in that fight either.

Whatever the rumour, both Holmes and Tyson understood that Ali would die before surrendering to any opponent - and I think they were absolutely on the money there.