Why did Ezzard Charles get the Marciano title fight and not Nino Valdes or Harold Johnson?

welcome back, Revolver. I’m glad to see you’re alive and kicking. The forums greatest all time troll.

I won’t bite at your drivel, but I will say given Ezzard Chares historic 15 round grueling war with Marciano…perhaps the IBC was correct in pushing for Marciano Charles. It was one of the greatest fights of the decade and sold quite well.

Valdes came off back to back pitiful performances vs Parker and McBride. By the time Valdes had restored his reputation with great performances vs Sys and Jackson…Marciano was in the middle of fighting Charles.

you can absolutely argue Valdes unequivocally earned his shot over Cockell there is no debate. But going after Charles is a losing argument.

Harold Johnson..why is he brought up? He could have gone after Marciano, he chose a title fight vs Archie Moore instead. After losing to Moore, he suffered an embarrassing knock out loss to Oakland Billy Smith then had that bizarre adulterated orange fight which got him suspended…which killed any hopes of a title shot. Harold chose Moore over Marciano

 

revolver…

Valdes was ahead on Braddock card after 10 rounds and even after 12…all Valdes had to do was put the old man away…instead the younger bigger prime man got tired and gave his title aspirations away to a 40 year old man….whom by the way Marciano demolished in 9 rounds.


Are you saying there was a conspiracy against Valdes? This entire set up was arranged surreptitiously by a petrified Weill to eliminate the big bad Valdes from hurting little Rocky?

 

Based on the Moore-Valdes fight description the 28 year old Valdes melted after round 12, pissing away the fight.

could you guys imagine…Marciano-Valdes taking place, and what would happen to Valdes the moment he starts to get tired? I mean just imagine what Marciano would do to him in there. 112 punches all over his body and face from all angles…the end will soon be near Nino

 

On this issue I don't have too much of a problem with Charles being picked over the other two, although I will always say in the case of ignoring Valdes and Bob Baker, that it was an Al Weill thing of avoiding the big heavyweight. I don't have an issue with Harold Johnson getting overlooked because it was as I have stated in the past, that Johnson never appeared to commit to heavyweight. He would garner a nice win, then go back to light heavy. If he was going to commit, he should have stayed with the big boys, like Moore did, and put consecutive wins in the bank to let them know you wish to be rated as such. Again, in regards to Valdes and Charles, I don't have a problem with that. What I do have the issue with was the Cockell fight, which Valdes and Baker both deserved more. But I do wish to mention one thing that may be overlooked in this scenario and that was Valdes' manager. From what I have read about Bobby Gleason, he appeared to be outspoken, ornery, whiny, and always threatening the wrong people at the top of the food chain. He may have just annoyed enough people that Valdes may have been shunned in the process. Gleason may have been the Norman Stone of his era.

 

I'm not "Revolver." I'm Dubblechin.

I've been Dubblechin on this site and every other site I've ever been on.

No other names. Just this one. For decades on every site that is still out there or was with a message board.

And I'm saying
* You had the biggest non-title fight at heavyweight ...
* Both fighters careers under control of the group that ran the sport (IBC - which was not only heavily influenced by the mob but had people in positions of power who were mobbed up) ...
* A group that controlled all of boxing on TV ...
* And a group that controlled and/or owned the biggest arenas in the sport at the time ...


AND THEY WOULDN'T LET ANYONE WATCH IT unless you drove to a minor league ballpark in the desert.

And they KEPT NO VISUAL OR AUDIO record of it.

And you made the SOLE judge a guy with no judging experience.

Nobody alive right now knows who really won that fight, or can say with any real authority what "Valdes needed to do" ... unless you could find an 80-year-old who was a child back than who kept score.

Valdes' manager said it was a "burglary" and (probably more telling) a "double-cross."

There is no reasonable explanation for staging a fight like that THERE on a week night in that year (with no TV or Radio, with one inexperienced "judge" instead of three) unless you "don't want people to see it and you want absolute control over the result."

It was a big fight. The biggest non-title heavyweight fight you could make at that moment.

They controlled the biggest venues, the TV dates, the broadcasts, the top fighters, even the heavyweight champ ... and they refused to show it on TV, refused to broadcast it on radio, refused to put in on closed circuit, refused to put it in a big venue in a major city where they owned the arenas and collected all the profits from tickets and concessions ...

I'm sure they could've aired that fight on any of their nationally televised broadcasts that week in any of the biggest arenas in the country they controlled and it would've been the most viewed telecast that week.

They buried it. And nobody gives it a second thought anymore.

You can't deny that.

 

He chose to?

I'm sure Harold Johnson had complete control over who he fought and the IBC had none.

Harold Johnson knocked out Bob Satterfield in two, beat Ezzard Charles, beat Nino Valdes, beat Jimmy Slade twice all in a little more than the previous year ... and yet Charles, Valdes and Slade were three of the top four heavyweight contenders in 1954 ... when Johnson "CHOSE" (your words) to fight Moore for the light heavyweight title.

In 1954, Johnson had beaten three of the top four contenders at heavyweight in the last year and Johnson couldn't even get a heavyweight rating.

The IBC, their matchmakers (including Al Weil) and the NBA decided who got title shots.

Johnson "CHOSE" to fight Moore. Oh boy.

We're going to start seeing this again (already are, in a way) with the Sheik guy over in Saudi. People fight who he wants them to fight. You can deserve a title shot or not deserve one. But if he wants this guy to fight this guy, then that's the fight that happens.

What comes around goes around.

I'm heading out of town. Enjoy the weekend.

 

Harold Johnson despite his many wins over heavyweights was never interested in making the heavyweight division his home or even fighting for the heavyweight title.

Here is piece with Johnson giving his reason on not wanting to go after the heavyweight title despite just beating Clarence Henry, a top rated heavyweight at the time.

"The weight is too much for me to make, take tonight. I weighed 178, the heaviest of my career. Yet I felt as if I needed a few more pounds to really hit a man like Henry. I want a title fight with Maxim."

Johnson said Henry "stung me a couple of times. I was never really hurt. Maybe for a few seconds, then I shook it off."

The Philadelphia Negro fought what the experts term a "cute fight." He found himself out-manned at the start by the hard and sharp-punching Henry. His manager, Tommy Loughrey, realizing Harold would get nowhere leading with his chin, instructed his boy to counter-punch. That won the fight. Johnson kept smashing his right hand inside Henry's left, landing repeatedly to the body and face.

It was the third defeat for Henry in thirty-six fights and was a real blow to his heavyweight ambitions.

The Los Angeles Negro, recent knockout victor over Bob Baker and Bob Satterfield, thought he won.

"I knew I lost a few rounds but I thought I was ahead all the way," he said in his dressing room. His manager, Frank (Blinky) Palermo, said the contracts called for a return bout.
https://imgur.com/WT6nD2u

 

Nino Valdez beating Charles got Valdez in the rankings, but it didn't make him the logical contender. Valdez was still ranked under Charles in 1953 and rightfully so.

Here is an article with Fred Saddy, who was the head of the National Boxing Association talking about Valdez not being the logical contender after Valdez knocked out Heinz Neuhaus.

A top boxing official said today Nino Valdez is not a "logical contender" for the world's heavyweight title despite his knockout over Heinz Neuhaus Sunday.

Fred Saddy, chairman of the National Boxing Assn. rating committee, said Valdez "is in what we call the 'outstanding boxers' bracket with (Ezzard) Charles, (Dan) Bucceroni, and (Roland) La Starza,"

"Even by virtue of this knockout of Neuhaus we still don't think he's ready to go against (champion) Rocky Marciano," he said.

The Cuban heavyweight knocked out Neuhaus in the fourth round of their 10-round bout at Dortmund Germany, Sunday.

"A victory or two more like that and he will be placed in the 'logical contenders' bracket," said Saddy.

Valdez is rated number three contender by Ring Magazine behind La Starza and Charles.

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