Jess Willard vs. Buddy Baer

Buddy. Even though Buddy was never known for his skill, he had more skill than Willard. I know he beat Johnson but that was more from sheer exhaustion on Johnson’s part. Buddy would get a knock out win here. But Willard did have a punchers chance. But Buddy by ko.

 

Buddy Baer, he was more evolved.

 

Can see Buddy getting a ko win eventually. Not like the Dempsey ko tho!

 

I would gamble on the younger Baer brother to clean Willard's clock.

 

Buddy Baer.

 

Willard was a crude pitchfork farmer from Kansas who boxed like an unemployed shepherd. B Baer was no ballerina but he belonged.

B Baer TKO 4 Willard

 

The presumption that Buddy would win because he came along 23 years later is rather uninformed, and frankly lazy. IRL, very old Foreman was winning title fights 27 years after Chuvalo and Peralta I & II. So I'm unloading a lengthy counter post to explain just how badly peak Jess would overmatch peak Buddy.

Larry Holmes and George Foreman brought this to reality when they schooled much younger opponents repeatedly, especially Holmes, when he induced an Olympic Gold Medalist to concede, "I guess I'd better learn how to box!," 14 years after Holmes-Shavers I. That one's on YouTube. At age 47, 19 years after Holmes-Shavers I, the Assassin took hometown boy Brian Nielson to a 12 round SD IN COPENHAGEN! That one's also on YouTube. Does anybody think either Mercer or Nielson would've won even a single round, or very possibly, even a single minute against the Holmes of Shavers I or Cobb? (Tex gave the highly skilled Norton and Dokes hell, Michael 2X. The only competitor at the time even remotely capable of dominating Cobb like that was Holmes, and Larry did it on Randy's turf, in Houston.)

Here, we are considering Willard vs Buddy peak for peak, and we have those on film. Buddy got the snot beaten out of him twice by a much smaller but deadly Louis. Jess was brilliantly patient against a badly undertrained and overweight yet extremely experienced ATG, carrying out the plan he publicly described beforehand. But looking at the footage and his record of wins, Jess would've performed to whatever the time limit was.


Jess by easy and relaxed late round stoppage. He had quickness, movement and a long left jab. Buddy didn't. Both had huge power (Jess killed Bull Young with a right uppercut and stunned Dempsey with another one), but Willard had a serious quickness and speed advantage over Frank Moran, and there's a clip where he ducks and blocks, ducks and blocks while against the ropes, before quickly ripping uppercut counters, a little like a heavyweight Benitez. As hard as Buddy hit, he still didn't have near the firepower necessary to hurt Jess.

People are surprised at how good an older and four years inactive Jess looks in stopping contender Floyd Johnson, and he did much better against Firpo than he had any right to, as Luis had the overhand right for reaching him easily. (Willard's height did require Dempsey to make some adjustments in his punching technique.) Still, Firpo needed a lot of those rights, and only produced the knockout when Jess went after him in the eighth, fatally exposing himself.

Floyd Johnson was considered to possibly be the fifth best heavyweight in the world by Time Magazine in 1923. He beat Fred Fulton as preparation for Willard, who proved far stronger than the Plasterer. Previously, the Auburn Bulldog had gotten the best of Bill Brennan, Bob Martin and Frank Farmer. Willard was the first to stop Johnson, who was never the same afterwards.

He was simply at a different level for Jack Johnson. The extant complete available footage shows Jess unloading right leads, jabs, and left-rights from extremely long range, something Buddy does not do in Louis I.

Overlooked in his long knockout right cross to win the Championship is the fact that Lil' Artha' saw it coming and tried to ride it out. As it connected, his left foot was off the floor with him leaning back, his right solidly planted flat on the canvas. In the next instant, that right foot is in the air. Willard's knockout punch lifted the 225 pound Galveston Giant off his feet.


Buddy's defeats to Gunnar Barland and Babe Hunt are concerning. He could gas, and never produced a stoppage beyond round seven. (That was Galento, in Two Ton's career finale.) Jess had seven stoppages beyond round seven.

Even in victory on film, Buddy does not impress me. He does not optimize his height and reach. Only Buddy's bouts with Louis are currently online. On videotape, I have Buddy versus Jack Doyle at MSG (haven't watched it in decades but Time Magazine was right, Buddy's first round seven knockdown win came courtesy of a low blow).


While the punches which knocked Louis out of the ring were a hard right followed by a tremendous head spinning hook, the Bomber might've still kept his feet in ring center and was not hurt. Louis at first tried to hold onto the second rope to pull himself back over it, then let himself slowly drop onto the ring apron, immediately got up, climbed back over the middle rope without any difficulty, then as Buddy rushed back it with a right, he was simultaneously met with a left hook. Through the remaining seconds of the opening round, it was as if that knockdown had not taken place at all.

Louis really used Buddy as a huge punching bag in their first bout. The big man was badly out jabbed, an easy target for Joe's right cross, and Buddy did nothing to take advantage of his height and reach.


Havana was mostly contested at long range and Jess moved well. He unloaded the same rights Louis caught Buddy repeatedly with, used his long jab to keep Lil' Artha' at bay, and countered. He'd go to the ropes, letting Jack lead, then clinch and repeatedly walk him back to the middle of the ring. Johnson was not a physically weak man, and while badly out of shape, he was still 225 pounds. Jess was far stronger physically than most 240 pound athletes who don't use PEDs would be. (Even with heavy steroid use, 226 pound block of granite Tommy Morrison was effortlessly and casually shoved back like a rag doll by the unworldly physical strength of a 44 year old 256 pound Foreman.)


Buddy went for the quick kill, typically in the first three or four rounds. Jess would let him try and expend himself in doing so. The Louis footage shows that Buddy was wide open to Willard's right uppercut in close. Jess hammered Johnson's body in Havana to wear him down, and Buddy's was a huge target.

Anybody who remembers the old World Superstars competition knows what tremendous athletes rodeo performers can be, and Willard was a rodeo entertainer. He also hoisted huge bales of hay effortlessly, and that's how he was originally discovered. Unlike Carnera and Abe Simon, Jess didn't have acromegaly either, and probably would've lived to 100 if he'd maintained his weight around 245 pounds in retirement. As it was, Willard set the record for longest lived former Heavyweight Champion by a margin of barely less than ten years over Jeffries (who himself might've been good for 100 had he kept his weight around 225 to 230 in retirement). Jeff was within a couple weeks of turning 78, but he'd had a stroke seven years earlier. Jess was a week and a half short of turning 87 when he died of congestive heart failure, but he was fine through the first 11 months of 1968. Jeffries and Willard raise questions about whether or not Foreman can finally break Schmeling's record and live to be 100. George looks to be an extremely strong and vital 75. (Holmes has had obesity and health issues, including Type 2 Diabetes, and tends to put weight on his abdomen. It seems very unlikely he'll live longer than Foreman.)


Presuming this is for the Championship Distance, bear in mind that Buddy won over ten rounds once, and stopped nobody beyond round seven. Jess had seven stoppages beyond round seven. The gulf in experience between Buddy against Louis and Willard in Havana is off the charts. According to the different newspaper accounts I've read on microfiche, BoxWRECK's entry of a NWS draw between Jess and 6'4" Lute McCarthy is wildly off the mark, that Jess had all the better of it with his jabs and right uppercuts. There are no reports of the tragic McCarthy winning this. He only took rounds three and four.




Countering to start, Willard goes on defense to let Buddy expend himself early, and Buddy would. Jess would let this one continue until Buddy was on fumes. In their rematch, Louis showed how open and vulnerable Buddy was to the right uppercut. Buddy would take the early rounds with aggression, but it would be quickly obvious he didn't have the firepower or skill to deliver it for hurting Jess, who would repeatedly walk back Buddy from the ropes to mid ring, wearing down Buddy.

Body shots would also take their toll on the younger Baer brother, and at long range, Buddy would be no match for that jab of Willard's. Buddy's only defensive tactic was to try tucking his chin behind his left shoulder, and Louis showed that wasn't very effective at all. Jess was far more proactive defensively. Although Buddy would have the early lead, there'd be little question as to the overall complexion of the bout. Just a matter of time. Like in Louis-Buddy II, the right uppercut decides matters, only this time in the later rounds on an exhausted Buddy, who couldn't take it to the chin or body. While Jess could certainly do to Buddy's body what Barland did, the right uppercut is a far more likely finisher.

 

Now I am reconsidering my pick

 

That's a lot of words to not remotely convince me. Holmes and Foreman, and the eras they fought in, having nothing to do with this match.

Being concerned that a guy who scored 53KO's in his 57 wins only won over the ten round distance once is pretty hilarious though.

Jess was a part-time boxer at best and known to quit on the stool. I see the same result here. Doesn't come out for round 9. Baer once again fails to win over the ten round distance.

 

Well, what's Buddy's best knockout win out of those 53 KOs? Jess doesn't come out for a round later than any which Buddy produced a stoppage in?

Yes, Willard was known to quit on his stool when severely ambushed and beaten by an ATG puncher at his absolute peak, and also when he wasn't in shape, but we're discussing the hyper conditioned endurance athlete of Havana against a guy whose peak saw him destroyed twice while sustaining multiple knockdowns.

Seamus, as much as I respect you, I also knew when I spotted your reply exactly how you'd respond. (That's okay. You reply to other threads with too many excellent and entertaining responses for me to take any offense here.) But Jess is too durable, and was very far from a part time boxer for Havana.

In this case, we actually have far more footage of Jess, including three wins. All we have of Buddy is two annihilations and a single round low blow induced blowout. Jess has more better wins than Buddy, and those better wins are over considerably longer distances.

 

This is the greatest boxing forum post ive ever read

Jess W all the way

 

Prime for prime, I am going with Jess Willard.

 

Buddy would gas and Willard would land eventually if he showed up in game shape, anything less than that and Buddy beats him like a drum

 

I dont know, Galento, Mann, Simon... Quantity has a quality all its own. He KO'd 83% of the dudes who dared enter the ring with him.

Hyper-conditioned is hilarious. Well-played. He was facing a low tread, hog fat, jaded champ looking for an exit from his problems. He did what he had to do, under the conditions that were given both fighters, but he was facing Johnson in name only.

Thanks, bro...
Durable against who, though? Gunboat took him distance. Pelkey took him the distance. Rodel took him the distance... All in boring, no action fights. Jess' best asset was being a mannequin in low action fights. I don't consider that terribly durable.

The Johnson victory was just good timing on Jess' part. He was just at the right place at the right time. He was an opportunist not a fighter and admitted as much himself. His greatest asset, his size and physicality, would be absolutely diminished by Baer who was even bigger and even stronger. I see a mauling, short punching affair, where Baer's better skill takes over and stops a Jess who's heart isn't in the game.